She Started a Podcast for Her Culture. Then She Built the Organization to Match.

1.5 and second generation Cambodians, we feel a lot of guilt for living an easier life than our parents. And when we feel sadness or when we feel that, you know, things aren't fair, we question.

Yep.

why do we feel this way? Because we didn't have to go through what our parents went through and they, you know, they they've survived and, but that's not the point. The point is that, you know, you're human and you have feelings and yes, you, do face injustices still. However, the point of life is not simply to survive. we need to be thriving in order to enjoy life.

Have you ever felt guilty for living the life your parents could only dream of? As first and second generation Cambodians, that feeling runs deep. The quiet guilt of having it easier, of not having to endure what they did, even as we still carry their stories inside of us. My guest Vanny Whitcelo understands that more than Like me, she was born in a Cambodian refugee camp, part of that in-between generation that grew up learning how to honor survival while trying to define what thriving really means. a job or finding one. It's about having the courage to start something new while you're already in one. Vanny built her podcast, Khmer Voices, and co-founded the Cambodian Cultural Center of Vancouver, while raising two kids and working full time. we talk about what it takes to build something meaningful from scratch. The self-doubt, the long nights, and the quiet moments of purpose that remind you of why you started. This one hits home for me, not just because we share the same roots, but because it's proof that our generation isn't survival anymore. We're creating, we're building, we're carrying the story forward. Here's my conversation with Vanny Let's get it.

Welcome to Life Between Titles. I'm your host, Savan. Today, I've got my good friend, Vanny Vanny, how are you?

I'm well, how are you, Savan

Hey, before we get started, a huge congrats to your one year of publishing your podcasts. It's a massive milestone and a testament to the consistency of you putting in the work. How do you feel about that?

Yeah! It's awesome. Honestly, it is a lot of work. As you know, you do video and I don't and I'm just like, I don't have the capacity to do video, but even just audio doing it consistently is a lot of work on top of working a regular nine to five as well. you know, having a social life and kids to young kids, but it's, I love it. I love it. And I just have met so many incredible people along the way and I

Yeah. Yep.

just going to be meeting more. And one of those incredible people are you or is you. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, that's how we met. That's definitely how we met. I was thinking about themes, because for each interview I do, I try to come up with themes or things that we could talk about that ⁓ span across the entire conversation. And for me, I keep landing back on this theme of courage and of commitment. And we can get, we can dive into that a little bit, but the one thing that I want to talk about maybe open with was your mindset around starting a podcast with all these things happening in your life. You've got a job, you've got kids, you've got a family. Like why did you want to start a podcast? Because it's not easy.

No, it's not. And I honestly, I just wanted to start something. I didn't know what it was and it happened during COVID. So I published my first episode and trailer in October, 2024, but I started thinking about this, not the podcast specifically, but I started thinking about what I wanted to do and what it is that really, that I'm, I'm looking for that I'm missing in my day job. And yeah, it was in it was during COVID that it happened. And, you know, there was a lot of a lot of people had had time to reflect during COVID as well. You know, you're not in the commute. You're not rushing from meeting to meeting. And it was, you know, it was really a four year journey. But what I just saw this lack of stories being told that come from our community, Cambodian community. And I knew that out there. we've accomplished and achieved so much. And you know, we start from zero, like the country of Cambodia started from zero in 1979. And so did the diaspora. And I look around me and I know like among, you know, my group of friends, specifically, I saw like, wow, we are doing we're

Yep. Yep.

We're thriving. But we don't hear stories of our resilience. We don't hear stories of ⁓ what we went through. And quite honestly, still, a lot of people don't know much about what happened in Cambodia between 1975 and 1979 and the period prior to that. So that's what really that that's what really prompted me to start the podcast. I wanted to amplify our stories.

Yeah.

and let people know how awesome we are.

Yeah. Was there like an event or something that made you commit to starting it or something happened in the world or was it just something that you slowly planned?

Yeah, you know, it wasn't necessarily an event, something like a light bulb in me went off in 2020 when, you know, there was the Black Lives Matter movement and they were just this one lady. I don't know if I saw it on Instagram or like someone shared it, but she was saying how, you know, they there's a lot of connection through trauma.

Yeah. Yep.

But she's so tired of feeling this heaviness. I want to connect to joy. And then that spoke to me because that's how I found a lot of Cambodians connected as well. Cambodians in the diaspora. We connected through our dark history when our parents went through the genocide and how we had to try to survive in a new country where we didn't know the customs, the culture, the language and adapt to a new society. So

Yeah. Great.

I wanted to highlight our stories and show and celebrate through joy and connect through joy. So yeah, I wanted to offer that a lens through joy.

I love that because there's the reason I started this podcast was so that people have this platform to speak about. troubling times that cause anxiety. But what I've noticed is there is a lot of happiness and rediscovery and joy that comes out of these traumatic events and experiences. When you're talking to your guests, what are some of the things that you're seeing they're talking about that stand out thematically? is it, more stories about perseverance or survival? What types of themes are you seeing out there?

Both. ⁓ But I like to get a full story of how they came. So my story is about, is careers focused? So I like to understand what their circumstances were growing up and how their parents were as well as their siblings and the people that they surround themselves with. But a lot of the people that I've interviewed.

Yeah. Yeah.

Perseverance is definitely a theme that comes true because you need that in order to have a successful career, whatever it is that you're in, whether it's the arts or science or ⁓ marketing or sales. ⁓ Yeah, you definitely need the perseverance. think another theme that comes across to me is a lot of ⁓ us.

Yep.

1.5 and second generation Cambodians, we feel a lot of guilt for living an easier life than our parents. And when we feel sadness or when we feel that, you know, things aren't fair, we question.

Yep.

why do we feel this way? Because we didn't have to go through what our parents went through and they, you know, they they've survived and, but that's not the point. The point is that, you know, you're human and you have feelings and yes, you, do face injustices still. However, the point of life is not simply to survive. we need to be thriving in order to enjoy life.

Yeah, I agree. think there is... There's this inner struggle of trying to honor and respect our history, but at the same time carve out, our own identity and when what that looks like for ourselves and our families. And what's interesting to me about the conversations you have on Khmer Voices is that we end up talking about these things that we've done in America or abroad. You you've had people from different countries

Mm-hmm.

countries. ⁓ start to dissect what it is that we've done and why we've done it. And it's interesting to me the reasons why people say go into filmmaking or poetry writing or government or whatever that may be and what drives them to do those things. From your perspective, as you're talking to, Khmer people, why do you think people choose to take the paths they do. it more of a honoring the past or is it maybe trying to blaze new frontiers? Why do you think that happens?

I think eventually people just follow what they feel strongly about. I also want to emphasize that I have a lot of guests that started in one industry or one profession, but pivoted a lot of the times. So,

Yeah.

A lot of my guests just choose what they do based on what interests them and what drives them. What is the purpose of whatever it is that they're doing? So for example, Soka, she was a lawyer for the prime minister's office in France, but she decided to move to Phnom Penh and she's now working for an NGO, but she's also a consultant for the government of Cambodia and the Ministry of Training. she's...

Yeah. Yeah.

She's loving what she's doing now, but you know, she could be in France practicing law, but she chose to move to Cambodia and make an impact that way. And as I started interviewing more people, I noticed that the conversations I was having steered towards the sort of impact that they wanted to make. So it was their careers that it was the impact that they wanted to make that drew them to their careers.

Yeah, agreed. Fairly or unfairly, think for myself growing up, there was always sort of that pressure to become a certain profession. It's like, you should go be a doctor or a lawyer or an engineer, And here's the path to go and do it. And that pressure was always with me even until I became an adult. And I think more times than not, ⁓ Khmer people sort of inherently have that because of the traumatic events that we've had and we put ourselves into this pedestal of like trying to be the best at those things because that's the the example of success in America. I wonder now with this new generation if that same amount of pressure will be there. Have you like as you're talking to individuals on your podcasts have you sort of seen that maybe dissipate a little bit or

Mm-hmm.

change that narrative change because I know like for my parents they still think that's successful right they like hey that person's a doctor they're like they're doing very well so they're successful but they could be absolutely miserable with with being a doctor who knows right

Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. haven't interviewed that many young people yet because I mean, I focused in the beginning more on people with established careers, but as the podcast grew, I have interviewed people in their twenties and it's only two people that I can think of actually, Mitchell and Callie. And they seem to be...

you

Like their parents really did put education as an important factor growing up, but

Right.

I don't think they, I don't think that they felt the pressure to be a certain, to do a certain thing. Yeah, so I can't really answer that question with confidence until I interview more people.

Yeah. No, totally respectable. I think it's one of those interesting things, because right now what I'm seeing with my conversations is you have these levels of anxiety that you put on yourself to get to a certain place, a certain title. You won't apply for jobs that you think are too junior for you because you've spent 10 years being a senior manager, so you're not going to go and just apply for a regular individual contributor job. And that's all artificial. pressure that we put on ourselves because we feel like we've done enough to get to the next level. And I always found it interesting how we perpetuate that level of pressure, at least individually, to then not have the courage to do something different, which is why I think starting a podcast or starting a business, that mentality to do something different and take that risk is

Mm-hmm.

is something that whenever I look at people that do that very well, it puts me at awe. Because there's just so much there in addition to the actual work, psychologically, mentally, spiritually, like that you have to get over to make that jump.

Mm-hmm. if you're not surrounded by those sort of people, then you're sort of in a vacuum and you don't have ⁓ examples or you don't have a soundboard to bounce off of, right? So it is a bit harder if you wanna go the entrepreneurial route. Anything that you wanna do, you gotta surround yourself or find mentorship.

Yeah.

where someone who has done it already or is just a few steps ahead of you and ask them, hey, how did you do it? And have those conversations with them. I'm just finding that that's a lot easier to do as well. Because growing up, I didn't really have a mentor and I was kind of lost and I didn't know what I wanted to do. And I thought, hey, I can figure it out myself. But as I age, I'm finding that like, your network and your community, not just your network of people, but I think your community is even more vital in how successful you are in the career path that you want to go. Because your community will help you. Your network is broader. Your community are the people who will actually talk about you with other people when you're not in the room.

Speaking of community, ⁓ you've participated and hosted and organized events for the Khmer community, I'm keeping track of it on LinkedIn, from a macro scale.

Thank

How's the Khmer community doing? what types of vibes are you getting from it? Cause I will be the first to tell you I'm not the greatest at attending events, but you have. So what does it look like now?

Ha Yeah, well, I guess it depends on where you are in the rest of the world. But like you said, at like the big picture level, it just seems like there's this revitalization or renaissance in celebrating our culture. And here in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada, ⁓ we, I'm feeling it too. And We just wanted something to happen and Cambodian Rock Band, I don't know if you're aware of that play, but it started in California and they toured in the US, but they also had a show here in Vancouver. That sort of like ignited everything because that's where I met my colleague in the nonprofit organization that we started. But it is a smaller community here in Vancouver. But I'm seeing a lot of people who are hungry to be celebrating our culture. So for example, ⁓ started the organization, we established the organization late May, and then we threw an event of about 100 people in July, sold out. with two weeks left, we sold out. And then...

Wow. Wow.

It shows how hungry the community was, right? And we have allies too who want to learn more about our culture, you know, the husbands, the friends and colleagues. And then we just had a big one in October.

Yeah.

October 25th and it was huge. we sold out over 500 people attended. It was insane. And then we had Khmer American singer, Jay Chan performing as well. Yeah. And then we had rescue Cambodia, who's a, they're a nonprofit organization in Cambodia and they house orphanages and they were touring across the North America to raise money for their charity too. ⁓ Yeah. We partnered with some

Wow. Yeah. Yeah.

Pretty cool organizations for that. And we're looking to build more connections in Vancouver and beyond. Yeah, I, there's, yeah, the Kama'i community is hungry. We had people coming from California, from Toronto, from Alberta, and from Vancouver Island as well. Like there was just, was, it was amazing. Yeah. So next time you should come. We're planning Kama'i New Year party. ⁓

That's amazing. Wow. That's crazy. Yeah. I mean, it's not that far for me coming from the other Vancouver or close to the other Vancouver in the United States. I want to touch on this idea of

It's not. Hahaha

all these different initiatives that you have going on. You've got a lot of shit going on and it's incredible to me that you can pull off these things. And one of the things I talked about in ⁓ a previous video was the idea of always staying ready and always staying prepared and always having your knife sharp because you don't know sort of how things are shifting. From the outside, I look at these things that you're doing, the nonprofit, the podcast, a full-time job, being a parent, these are all things that take a ton of time. How do you balance all that? what are you doing during the day? You probably have more hours than I do during a day, like clearly you do. ⁓

No, I just wake up early. I go to bed really early and I wake up early. Like that's my quiet time. My husband's the opposite. He likes to, you know, stay up late and I used to be that way, but I was just so, you know, the days are false. So I was just so tired by the end of the day. But yes, 5 a.m. club, just join it. And a lot of things happen because you're not, you don't have these messages coming in on your phone. You don't have any emails coming in.

Yeah. Yep.

yet so there's less distraction and it's just a quieter time too. And I want to also mention that I wouldn't be able to do this without support. So, you know, I have my husband who and my in-laws here, they're able to obviously help with the kids. And then with a nonprofit, we have a team, we have a strong team that can contribute different skill sets to making this grow at a pace that

Yeah. Right.

wouldn't have been possible if it was just me.

Yeah. Where do you get your inspiration to do these things? the creativity that's involved is tremendous. Where do you get your inspiration?

You know what, I'm inspired by what a lot of the Cambodians are doing in the US, particularly in California. So Dorothy Chow from Death in Cambodia podcast, like she's been my inspiration for a long time. And I see what the community in Long Beach has been doing for decades.

Yeah.

And I'm just like, wow, I, I'm in awe of, the mark that they make for our community. Like there's a Cambodia town as well in California and yeah. And I understand, you know, it is easier to make, to make some roadways with the population there, but that doesn't mean that, you know, we can't do something here in Vancouver.

yeah.

either because it's not just the Cambodian community, it's also our allies. And we have Cambodians just across the border as well, because we had a lot of people coming from Washington ⁓ enjoying the show on Saturday.

Right. All Yeah, I mean, Seattle. South Seattle especially has a high concentration of Cambodians. I that's where I grew up and I felt like I felt like there it was Cambodia town there were certain concentrations of communities where I didn't know if anybody that wasn't Cambodian like I I bump into family and friends all the time and so you know when my universe expanded and I didn't have all that it was actually sort of weird to to be like

Mm-hmm. Yeah. .

shit, like this is what the rest of the world looks like. Interesting.

Yeah, you know what? I find it still exciting when I bump into a Cambodian here in British Columbia. And I'm also very proud when I bump into them because they're typically young professionals or professionals. And it goes to show that, we we do have a very strong Cambodian community here that we can build on and offer and make a network. You know, how can we help? How can we?

Right. Yep. Yeah.

make lives for the next generation easier and make a mark for our community and let people know about us because we don't want people to forget. We don't want the next generation to forget where we came from too. And that's probably something that kind of scares me because, you growing up, I wasn't attracted to being to celebrating Cambodian traditions and customs and I want my kids to know where they came from too and not just celebrate, I guess, mass, the general Canadian culture, but really specifically I want to know that, I want them to know what being Cambodian is like and I want them to be aware of some of the traditions and our heritage and our roots and you know that. We didn't always have it easy, but if we could do this and we're gonna make it easier for you to thrive as well.

Yeah, I think it's amazing. ⁓ I feel the exact same way as I'm getting older with my kids as well. I wanted to circle back to the podcast, funny, and ask about some of the fears that you had before you started it. What were you most worried about? Like what caused you the most anxiety?

Mm-hmm. I was always nervous. I'm still nervous going into interviews because I feel like I, I'm just, I'm afraid that I won't be, I wouldn't, I'm afraid that the questions I ask won't aren't, I'm not probing enough or I'm not able to offer my audience the full story or like an interesting story, even though I know that the person I'm interviewing is interesting. That was my biggest fear, just like kind of not being able to show the person I'm interviewing in the best light possible.

Yeah, I've got that. I've got that same fear too. And it's a hard one to get over because you, you, you want to best represent the conversation, but you also want to respect like the topic, ⁓ which you're talking about and it's a struggle. And, you know, I think like it there's goodness that comes from practice, but I also think just like, for me, at least, ⁓ it's much easier once you sort of get to know somebody to have

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

very casual free-flowing conversations. ⁓ What were some of the things that you did initially when you first started the podcast ⁓ that you changed up because you were still working a full-time job when you did this, right? Did you? Right.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I'm still in the same job. Yeah. What are things that I changed with the podcast since I started?

Well, just change in your day-to-day life. Did you have to shift around schedules? Did you, you know?

⁓ well, you know, before I started the podcast, I, still woke up early because I was training. Yeah. I training for a couple of half marathons. So I was like, okay, well, I got to get, I got to get that done, but that's sort of, ⁓ gone on the back burner and it needs to come back because I've actually signed up for a full marathon now. And yeah. And I'm like, my goodness. Only, what? Seven more months. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. ⁓ man.

Yeah, seven more months to train for it, but I've done it before. No, I haven't done a full marathon before, but I've done, you know, half marathons before. So they say that if you've ran a half marathon, you can actually run a full one. So like, OK, I'll I'm banking on that, but I do need to start training. Yeah, but I think things get easier and you're more efficient the more you do it. Right. So the first time I started my when I first started my podcast, it took me hours.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

edit my podcast because A, I was just horrible. I kept saying ahs and ums and ands and ⁓ just long pauses. But like you said, the more that you do it, the easier it becomes. Right. So as I got better in speaking on the mic, I didn't have to edit as much. And I knew where the buttons were in the editing program too. So everything, I just streamlined everything and it

Right.

it's a lot easier to get stuff done that way. Yeah. So in the beginning of any new project, right, you're just trying to figure things out, but the longer you do it, the better you become at it.

Yeah, absolutely. Did you ever worry about what your community's reaction would be? Whether it was good or bad or feedback or anything like that? Yeah.

No, no, because nobody else was doing it. So like they don't really have anyone to compare it to. Like, I guess, I guess like if they really wanted to, they can compare me to other podcasts that aren't like Khmer. But my my topic was like very niche, right? It's like I'm interviewing the Cambodia diaspora about how they got to their careers and impact they're making. Like, is there another podcast out there like that? maybe at a bigger level, but not, I haven't come across that really even at, you know, a more ⁓ macro level, but, ⁓ I haven't come across another podcast like mine. So I wasn't really scared. What I never really feared what other people thought of my podcast. Cause I'm like, I'm putting myself out there and you can criticize me about how shitty I sound, but I I'm out there and you're not. So

Yeah. Yeah.

I don't really care.

Yeah. No, there's a huge amount ⁓ of... Courage that it takes to to put yourself out there and be vulnerable I I go back and I listen to some my earlier stuff too and it's not even earlier stuff as in the podcast but just like speaking sessions and interviews and I just cringe and then I have to like brace myself and be And give myself a little bit of grace cuz you know, it's fucking hard ⁓ It's fucking hard ⁓ Vanny I wanna I want to ask a but I'll go ahead

Mm-hmm. yeah, want to, sorry, I wanted to say I cringe too. Like I'm only like 27 episodes in, I've only published 27 episodes, but like there's a big improvement since, you know, the first one, the first one I listened to it, I'm like, my goodness, should I take it down? I think, you know, it's nice for other people to see the progression and ⁓ it shows them that like, yeah, you're gonna be really bad in the beginning, but hey.

Yeah, right. Hahaha Right?

I'm not the best right now either. have so much room for improvement, but I'm getting there. Yeah.

Yeah, no, I can definitely see as you do more and more of these that the quality is getting exceptionally good. What are some things you're doing right now to reinvest back into the podcast?

Well, I've started a group chat on WhatsApp of a former Khmer Voices guests. Sort of like as a, not really a thank you, but just to offer more value to my guests. I think a lot of, I'm not sure what will come out of it, but I didn't, there's nothing to lose to be part of it. And you know, a couple guests have already made connections in real life. So that makes me really happy to be connecting former guests and having them maybe collaborate on something that also be impactful for the community, wherever they are. But how am I investing in, ⁓ reinvesting in Khmer Voices? Could you explain specifically what you mean by that?

Yeah, so like for me, one of things that I'm doing is I'm reading about how to listen better. And I'm trying to refine the skill of listening better, which I think I'm not good at. At least that's my self-diagnosed, you know, result of me liking to talk as a kid and as a young adult. And I was never a great listener. And one of my old bosses, she told me that it's okay to take a deep breath before you say something because I was just vomiting over and over again. if I'm gonna be starting a podcast I need to be able to listen to what people are telling me actively and so that's one of the things that I've been trying to do a little bit better of so I don't know if you were you know maybe consuming information like reading books or watching YouTube or listening to podcasts on how to improve your craft and what that looked like

⁓ Yeah, I've always I've been listening to podcasts for several years now, so I'm always picking up pointers from that. Some podcast shows as well to I pick up ways I pick up things that I like about certain shows and possibly implement them. But right now I'm keeping the format pretty consistent because, you know, it's it's relatively new and I publish twice a week. But I think. I do want to. So I think your question is like how what steps am I taking to improve the podcast? Is that what you're referring to? OK, I think I stutter a lot. So I'm working on that. And when I get really excited, I do stutter and I have to remember to take a deep breath and just calm down and slow down. I think that's.

Yeah. Yep.

I'm working on that, especially, you know, having being part of the Cambodian Cultural Center where we've already hosted two events. I was the MC for both and that has helped me a lot too in ⁓ communicating to big crowds. And I kind of take that and put it into my podcast as well. Yeah.

Yeah, talking in front of a crowd is really hard. It's really hard.

Yeah. I introduced myself in Cambodian in Khmer. I introduced myself in Khmer the first the first event and I stumbled over my words. I like mixed up the first two words. I was like, my goodness. So I just paused and started all over again. But it's OK. It was only 100 people.

Uh-huh. Yep. Yep. Nobody remembers that except for you, right? you're literally the only one that remembers those type of things.

Yeah. Yeah, only half the audience knew what I was saying because the other half didn't speak Khmer. So it was all good. Yeah.

You the irony. The irony of that. Vanny want to... Maybe take it back to when you were growing up, because I think there's a lot of common themes I'm seeing from the initiatives that you have, your projects, your, I don't know much about your profession, what you do professionally, but just from the nonprofit and my voices, there's like this innate sense of compassion and willingness to learn and open up ⁓ and communicate that I think are absolutely incredible. How were you growing up? Were you naturally like this or did this sort of like blossom as you were a young adult or maybe a mom?

Yeah, growing up, think I didn't understand. Obviously you don't really understand like what's happening, right? So I didn't really understand like why would our, why would our people kill our own people? I didn't understand that. And that was part of the shame in me being Cambodian. Like I didn't understand what happened before that or why it was done. And really it's only recently when I started researching this and listening to other podcasts that I, that

Yeah. Yep.

I realized that there were outside forces and it was wasn't just, you know, our own people killing our own people. There's more to the story. So I implore listeners to seek out more information. It's really easy to find. Just Google it or ask AI and they'll give you a good summary of ⁓ what happened in Cambodia prior to the genocide. did I? ⁓ I always had like I've always been sort of like a sensitive kid and the compassion really did come. It really grew, ⁓ during COVID just cause there was just so much happening in the world. You know, ⁓ I was more locked into the injustices of what was happening in the U S too. And then the Palestine Gaza situation still happening now and in Sudan and yeah, I just became more. attuned to what was happening in the world. And I just saw that there was a lot of, it just didn't really make sense to me that people don't care for it, care about what's happening in the world when all this is happening. And also, you know, I'm trying to rediscover my roots and stuff. And I just saw the parallel between what was happening in the rest of the world to what happened with our country. I just became louder in sharing our stories because I didn't want them to get lost as well. So I think I always had the compassion. I just didn't know how to ⁓ share it. Yeah. And I, my compassion also grew for our community too, because when I was growing up, I didn't realize I didn't, I didn't understand like that there was PTSD and stuff, right? So I didn't understand like why these kids, my age and older would throw away their opportunity for an education and, you know, choose a life of like violence and, and theft and drug dealing. So I didn't understand that. And now I do. Like it was a community that was offered to them and you know, parents are trying to survive and parents have PTSD too, and don't know how to address that. And yeah, that's this podcast really opened up my eyes to why things were the way that they were. And yeah, just I did a lot of research on different communities in different communities in the US and all over the world. And yeah, it just made me ⁓ understand our struggles more too.

Yeah, there's a lot of struggles. of the things that that speaking of struggles, one of the things that I struggle with is this feeling of inundation of

Thank

injustices and things happening in the world that I can't control. You know, I talked about sort of the the layoffs with Amazon and you know, I talked about the rifts, the reduction in force with the federal government and there's massive amounts of this stuff happening right now. And it's just a lot to handle. And then layer on top of that all the stuff happening globally. And that's not to mention the stuff that you're personally dealing with within your own family. How do you reconcile some of these feelings? Because you're talking to people with very powerful and personal stories and I'm sure it takes a lot of energy to get through these conversations so that you can actually eventually tell the story on your podcast. But how do you reconcile all these things happening, especially like you mentioned, you're somewhat of a sensitive soul.

Mm-hmm.

and saw that.

Yeah, you know, when I'm editing, when I'm editing some of my podcasts, I end up crying. just tear. I know I I'm just I'm and it's sometimes it's not just it's not like I'm crying because they had a hard it was a difficult life growing up, but I'm I'm tearing up because they've been able to accomplish so much. So I'm.

⁓ no! ⁓

super happy for for them. And I think it's necessary to feel that way. Like I think it's necessary to just let it out. I told my girlfriend that one of the unexpected things and I think I've mentioned this in my solo episode as well, one of the unexpected things that has happened as a result of my podcast is that it sort of acts like as a as a little therapy sessions for me. You know, I'm hearing these stories too, so I can relate to a lot of what

Yep. Yeah, absolutely.

my guests say, and it doesn't feel as lonely, you know, and I'm also building community as a result of this too. So I don't know if it's necessary to reconcile it. think it's just, you got to feel it, right?

Does it ever feel overwhelming at times?

No, I don't think so. I haven't felt overwhelmed. think with events, I feel overwhelmed with a nonprofit because, know, we put on some big shows, so it gets overwhelming for that. that's just not me solo, right? I know I have people that I can rely on that I work with. So ⁓ the overwhelm is calmed down pretty quickly. But ⁓

Right. Yeah.

You know, with any events, I don't know how often you plan big events, I think like event planning. Yeah. Event planning as a profession. Like I would not be able to do this as a profession. it's, it's too stressful. Yeah.

Not often. Yeah, it definitely takes a certain type of personality to like do it consistently. It's very hard. Very hard.

Yeah, it is. It's so many details and you just got to roll with the punches. And there were a lot of things that we can we can improve on on our two events. But, you know, the more as we had mentioned, as we discussed, the more that we do, the better that they're going to become that the better that they're going to get. And this more smoothly, they'll run. Yeah. But you know what? Guess for both events had like just spent time.

Yeah.

Like they didn't even realize, you know, they don't know what's was supposed to happen. Right. So that's the good part. It's just like podcasts. Like they don't really you get to like show them the best. Like they don't really know that you said Oz and Oms five million times.

Yeah. Yeah. Right, right. I agree. ⁓ What is the future for the nonprofit? Like, what does that look like for you?

my goodness. mean, we're only what? Seven, eight months old. So the future is bright because we're making so many connections and we're bringing the community together. It was so great on October 25th where I didn't grow up in Vancouver. So ⁓ I didn't have that sort of like reunion feeling. But a lot of people that that attended grew up in Vancouver and they're like, and you know, they've gone on to do their separate their thing with their family and their professions. And you

Yeah.

start living your own life and you kind of, you know, aren't connected to the community if you're not religious, if you don't attend the temples. So they were all like super excited that we were able to gather like so many Cambodians and celebrate at that level because we had like Brian Jessel, BMW be the title sponsor of our event. Like they just, yeah, yeah, they put on, I mean, they helped us put on an awesome show. Yeah.

Wow. Wow. It's amazing. ⁓ Did you have a hard time finding sponsors for the event?

No, because we have lots of professionals here in the lower mainland. So we're able to to leverage that and like their relationships, right, our relationships. So ⁓ it wasn't that difficult. It was, you know, the if you don't ask, the answer is going to be no. So we just asked. Yeah, there's.

Uh-huh. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Did you like when you're when you're talking about it, how do you frame what you guys are trying to do like to these sponsors?

Well, ⁓ a lot of it is business relationships. you know, they're going to be accessing customers that maybe they haven't had access to in the past. So there's the visibility there and the opportunity to, you know, be on our growing network because

Yeah. Yeah.

our site is visited like so I don't know, I don't, I didn't really look at the stats, but you know, every time we have an event, our, our stats for our site just go up. Same with our, ⁓ our social media and we don't even put that much effort in our social media. Like every now and then, well, well, it's not every now and then, but like, you know, we, we, we're a nonprofit and we're all working for free here for now. And we do what we can. And, people are so passionate about it. So

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, a lot when we approach these sponsors a lot, they see the engagement that we have, like each of our posts has like multiple comments and multiple likes and multiple shares. So they see the engagement and they see the opportunity to ⁓ to gain access to a population that probably didn't know about them before.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I've always found it very interesting, especially with the Khmer community. know, whenever an event happens, you don't need to do that much marketing because the community itself does that for you. What do you think that is with our community? Why do you think it's so strong in terms of the support that we have for each other?

Word of mouth, yeah. Yeah. Because we don't have much going on. Like, unless you go to the temples, right? Not everybody is comfortable going to the temples because they may not be Buddhist or they just don't feel comfortable. they're not. ⁓ They kind of they don't really understand like how to address monks and stuff. So they don't. And what to do, like when to take off your shoes and like when to pray and stuff. So they may not be familiar with that.

Hahaha Right?

And this is something that's more neutral, like regardless of religion, regardless of your political affiliation, regardless of like who you're friends with, like you're welcome to come celebrate and party with us. And we didn't really, we didn't, we don't have that much going on in BC in that regard.

When did you move to Vancouver?

2008. But I didn't. Yeah. Yeah, almost 20 years, so 18 years. Well, so I didn't really like have any Cambodian connections in Vancouver until I started my podcast. Yeah, yeah. So.

Okay, so you've been there for 20 some close to 20 years. Yeah, okay Okay. Wow, I didn't know that. Did you have a strong community where you were born and where you grew up?

I was born in Thailand. So I was born in the refugee camp. think you were too. Yeah. And then I grew up in Hamilton, Ontario, and there was a strong community there ⁓ and a much bigger community as well. I for listeners who don't know where Hamilton is, it's just about an hour outside of Toronto, but it is, you know, a large city as well. ⁓ There is a strong Cambodian community there and in Ontario in general. But I, I don't know and I don't

Mm-hmm.

think aside from Montreal, there was a big festival in Montreal too. There aren't productions or celebrations at the scale that we put on in on, in October 25th. Yeah. So we were really, we really wanted to elevate the experience, especially because I don't know how it is, how it was for you growing up, but for me growing up, a lot of the parties and stuff were done in halls, like community halls.

Mmm.

And they were just kind of like, whatever. Yeah. It's like, it's fun. Like you had a good time, right? But like the, the details in the decor and the details in ⁓ the food presentation, just, it's, wasn't there. wasn't top of mind for organizers. Whereas like we really wanted people to feel like they're in an elevated space and to celebrate it because that was in line with us celebrating how far we've come to.

yeah, yeah. Yep. Yep. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think like back in the day when you were going to these events, was literally your mom or your aunts and they brought plates of food and that's how it looked, right? Like random sets of, yeah.

Yeah, that, yeah, I mean, that was in the morning. Yeah, in the morning when you, yeah. But in the, night it would be like, you know, ⁓ beef on skewers with like some pickled vegetables ⁓ and beer. Yeah.

Yep. Yeah, lot of Heineken and Hennessy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But word of mouth, yeah, I think it's because the community is hungry for it. So that's how it travels word of mouth. And it's yeah, it's awesome that we are able to support each other. And that's that's why we're able to like sell out because people want this. So we're just going to give them more. We weren't planning to have a Khmer New Year party, but it looks like we're going to have one now because people you were asking for it.

Yeah, no kidding. No kidding. ⁓ I want to talk a little bit about... ⁓ how you are able to stay on top of all these things. One of the themes that has come up consistently with ⁓ my conversations is people sort of get lost on what to do next. I've also had conversations about hobbies. People have told me, don't know if I have a hobby or what I even like to do because all I've been doing is working. And it's sort of like that lack

Mm-hmm.

of direction is probably the thing that they struggle with the most. but for you, you've got all these different initiatives that you're taking on right now and maybe even more in the future as like the nonprofit picks up and know, things shift. ⁓ How do you how do you sort of like from a day to day perspective, ⁓ break up some of these things so that you can be successful like with the podcast and the nonprofit and working? Like are there tips and tricks that

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean, working like,

that you can tell.

yeah, I, I, you have to put in your calendar, even like working out. So I didn't follow my own advice. I didn't put working out. I didn't put go for a run. didn't go, I didn't put leg day or, you know, chest and tris. I didn't put that. I used, I used to, but I haven't, I haven't been doing that. So like, it really does work when you put it in your calendar.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yep.

put everything you need to do that is a must in your calendar and that's how you're going to get it done. And like, for example, I kept forgetting to send a potential guest my intro email. So I had to put it in my calendar last night to send it to him this morning and it happened because you know, like if you don't put it in your calendar, you're not prioritizing it. And I think, I think that's the main trick. ⁓ I think you also mentioned that like, like,

Yeah. Yep. Yep.

people not really knowing what their hobbies are and. because they're focused on work. Like it just depends if they enjoy work, do they really need a hobby? Like they can just, their hobby could be, you know, watching movies with their kids, right? Like it doesn't have to be anything spectacular. It doesn't have to be anything grand. Like if that's what makes you happy, then that's your hobby.

Yeah, I think most people, the challenge I've been hearing is, you know, most people have spent so much time with work that when they get fired or laid off and that sort of vacuum comes up and that is both your hobby and your work and your life essentially, ⁓ it's like you're back at square one, right? Like what do you do now with that and how do you stay busy and stay sharp?

Mmm. Right. my goodness, I was just having this conversation with a colleague. So we've had a strike here. In British Columbia, the government runs everything liquor related and the workers decided to have a strike and the distribution branch and the stores were closed, like the government liquor stores were closed, but everything else was open. But you couldn't...

⁓ Uh-huh.

order any wine or order any spirits or alcohol in general, unless it was produced in British Columbia. Anyways, I don't want to get into the details of all that. The whole thing, the point of my story is that I, if that was my identity, if work was my full identity, I would have been so depressed because like, what else do you, what, what are you, what if I lose my job? What if, what if like,

Yep. Yeah.

because for six weeks there was no money coming in. Like what if, what if we can't make it? So my, my colleague was, ⁓ my colleague and I were talking and I'm like, and then I told her, I'm like, I'm so glad I have the nonprofit and my podcast to think about, because if I were to only think about work, then I'd be so depressed right now. And I also feel like the podcast and the nonprofit have

Yep.

increased like have made my network and community stronger as well so that if something does happen to my nine to five, I do have a lot of people that will support me in trying to find something new to do or help me create whatever it is that I want to do if I didn't have a job. So I even though I don't know what it is that I would be doing if I didn't have a nine to five, I think. ⁓

Yep.

I think based on what I'm doing with my free time, ⁓ it's not going to be very hard to figure it out. I have that confidence.

Yeah. And really building up that confidence in times of despair where, let's just say you were fired and you were given two weeks and all of a sudden you're scrambling to figure out how to fill that time and make that money is a lot harder than when you're actually working and you can, you know, think about those things. But I do love sort of how you've positioned your time to be able to do

Mm-hmm.

to accomplish the work stuff but also build these things on the side and I would imagine one day these things you're building on the side will be the main thing if they all go well right if you sort of become successful a successful podcaster a successful non-profit you know owner and all those things what are you hoping for in the next like five to ten years of this all these initiatives that that you're building

For the podcast, actually want to, I want to start making video, but you know, that requires time and that's not a priority in my calendar right now. ⁓ I also want to start a new podcast, ⁓ specifically on reviewing books. So sort of like a panel discussion on books written by Southeast Asian authors, because I'm more curious about the history and, excuse me, the...

Right? ⁓

the culture and heritage of surrounding countries and how they interrelate, right, to Cambodia. So I'd like to start spending some more time. I do a lot of reading already, but I, and I used to be in a book club and that like, that was one of my hobbies. Like I loved. getting together with this group and talking about books that we read. But I think I want to, in the future, open, start another podcast and increase my network even more by inviting not only the authors, but like people of the author's descent to talk about from their perspective, the book. So that's one thing. Another thing is, I mean, the nonprofit, I have like so many big dreams and I'm not ready to share them yet.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay, that's

I share them with the directors ⁓

all good. Yeah.

in the nonprofit, but I don't want to say anything yet because big things are coming out from, are coming from us. That's all I'm willing to say for now. ⁓ And I want to leave a legacy for my kids. That's in the long run. I want to leave a legacy and let them know, let them see.

Okay, okay. Yeah.

another part of who they are.

Yeah, that's interesting to me because I think most... At least the Cambodian people that I know, we think about that as well. And it's probably the byproduct of, you know, our history and growing up. When you talk about your legacy, Vani, what exactly does that entail for you? How does that look? How is that represented in your kids' mind? Like when they're looking at sort of what you've done over the last 30, 40 years?

What does it look like? So specifically, I'd like them to understand Khmer. Because I think we mentioned this when I interviewed you about, when you speak Khmer, you can pick up the nuances that you aren't able to interpret in English just because there is no direct translation. And if it then it doesn't make sense if you actually try to translate it word for word. ⁓

Yeah. Right. Right.

So I'd like them to speak Khmer and I'd like to improve my Khmer too. I'd like them to be continuing the work that I'm doing with the nonprofit.

Yeah.

and helping ⁓ the community uplift each other. So yes, I want to provide opportunities for my kids and then have my kids continue that work and continue to build on that.

Yeah, I love that. I think that's all, at least the parents I know, that's sort of like our desires. When my parents had their small businesses, they were like, yeah, when I'm gone, you're gonna own all this stuff and do it. I'm like, mom, I don't want to own any of this stuff. I don't want to do this. But that's always the conversation growing up was, hey, this is part of your legacy.

Yeah, you know, if they don't want to do it, yeah, they don't want to do it. That's fine. But at least I've built something for them to to have that option if they really wanted to do it. And at least they'll know, like, where they came from as well. And so it's not just them. But, you know, the if they don't want to do it, I'm sure that there's others in the community that will want to take this on and keep our work alive as we. you know, get older 30, 40 years from now.

Yeah, I agree. What scares you the most about your kid's future?

I think it's fine, like it's more of the... It's more of the social stuff that scares me. Because I don't know, obviously, who they're going to be friends with and... ⁓

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I'm not really scared about like the financial aspect of things. It's more of, yeah, who they're going to be friends with that will influence them. And I don't want them to forget about our culture.

Yeah. The social stuff scares the shit out of me too. ⁓ There's just so much there.

My daughter. So have you heard of the switch witch? OK, so I just learned the switch, which about two years ago and she comes and takes the kids Halloween but gives a present in exchange. So she's called the switch witch. Yeah, so my daughter's like, you know, mommy, I can write a note to the switch witch and tell her I want a phone. I'm like, the switch, which is not getting you a phone.

Now tell me. ⁓ man. ⁓

She's eight years old. I'm like, do you have any friends who have phones? Plus you're not allowed to have any phones in your school. Like, why do you want a phone? You're not getting on social media. 100 % no. Yeah, it's crazy. I don't know. She sees us on our phone, I guess. Yeah, she asked my husband, like, why is mommy always on her phone? She doesn't realize, like...

Yeah. Where did she get that idea?

You know, I'm on social media because I'm actually posting for stuff for the nonprofit, plus, you know, my stuff. ⁓ yeah, we do a lot of work on our phones these days, right? As opposed to sitting in front of the laptop. yeah.

Yep. yeah. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah, I'm deeply worried about how social is going to be, especially with the rise of AI and the...

Okay.

just the idea of authenticity and what that looks like, especially for our kids. And it scares the shit out of me because it's something that as a parent, you can try to help them prepare for it, but you don't also know what's coming up in the next 10 years, because it's happening so fast.

Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah. Well, it was just like when the Internet just started, right? The people didn't really know what was how to handle it. And I don't think there was any legislation in place to kind of control it either. They just let the corporations do all that. So we could possibly learn from from the the start of the Internet. But I don't know. That's not my forte in terms.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, me neither. ⁓

I'm hoping that, you know, some legislation to control it in some way. But like, how do you know what legislation to pass? Because you don't even know what's going to come. So, yeah, I don't know. It's it's more complex than ⁓ than it looks like. But that's exactly why I haven't really. Yeah, I haven't really like ⁓ I've embraced it, but I haven't really like.

Yeah. Yeah.

questioned it yet.

Yeah, yeah, I agree. think, you know, the policy is sort of the spearhead of all the rules and laws that get passed and what that looks like. And the people that are right in those policies, at least in my opinion, are ⁓ not the ones that are best suited for it. ⁓ So that's just Savan's hot take.

Right. my goodness. Do you do you want to do you you listen to Trevor Noah's podcast? So his most recent one, I just started last night and I can't remember it was he was the former mayor of a city. The most recent one, anyways, he was saying like these people who are passing laws for AI, they don't even know what's going on like this lady of I forget what her title is. She referred to AI as a one.

Yes, I do. Okay. Right? Like that steak sauce? god, I'm scared.

Cause she was just reading the script, yeah. So yeah, like these people who I'm so that that just speaks to your point that like these people who are passing these laws don't know they're not the most qualified to understand what to even address.

Yeah. No, and it scares the shit out of me too because these policies ⁓ impact how we govern, it impacts how we invest, and it impacts not just sort of like where we are now, but where we are gonna be in like 20, 30, 40 years. Because they're long-term investments of how we actually do approach and think about complex situations like artificial intelligence and social media. so, you know, and we're seeing sort

Hmm.

impact of the lack of good policy writing now ⁓ with the struggles that people are having, at least in my opinion from the conversations I'm having with people, we're seeing sort of the impact ⁓ across very different industries, but they're still feeling sort of the same thing, right? Like if you distill and you boil what people are afraid of, it's, they're very consistent. Like I'm afraid of the unknown. I'm afraid I'm going to be obsolete. I'm afraid that something's going to take my job. afraid I can't upskill fast enough to get that next job so I can feed my family. These are like very core things to families regardless of industry and regardless of whatever role you you have. Funny, the ⁓ last sort of category and area I want to talk to you about and maybe a little bit more personal, but ⁓ I'd like to get your thinking behind how you approach. ⁓ parenting for your kids. And the reason I'm asking this is because one of the things that I found that I lack or I'm struggling with is as I'm sort of in between jobs and trying to build something and do all these things, I feel like my parenting has shifted in a way where when I had a job, it was very, very different than what I'm doing now. For you as you're juggling all these things, like What's your approach to parenting? How are you sort of like coping with some of the things that your kids are bringing to you that may be a little bit harder and You know, what is your general take on? parenting in general

My approach to parenting, that's a broad question. I let my kids explore whatever it is. They're only five and eight, so they're still very young. they're in that exploration phase right now, and I can see what their budding strengths are, but I'm not going to.

Yep. Yep.

I'm not going to like ⁓ push them in any direction. Like I'll offer suggestions. Like we put my daughter in ballet and she didn't like it. So after two years, we're like, okay, you're out. Same with soccer. And yeah, we're just letting them explore things right now. I used to be in terms of like how I was raised versus like how I'm raising my daughter and son. Now I'm trying to be more gentle. Like, you know, I'd

Yep. Mm-hmm.

It was very like, I don't know, maybe it was just through exhaustion and just trying to live in a different, a completely different society as well. I was thinking about it. was like, okay, that's, that must've been so hard for my parents because I was born in 81 and then we moved to Canada in 85. And then I, you know, I, I'm.

Yep.

In the 90s, it was it was a different world, too. And it was just, yeah, completely like being it was all about assimilation. And I. I could see like how my parents got tired real quick, because even at eight years old now, trying to like talk some sense into my daughter, it's like. Yeah.

yeah. Some days are harder than others.

Yeah, yeah. And I'm just constantly trying to, you know, stay calm and stuff. But I'm I'm working on that too. ⁓ In my approach to to how I parent them, because I am trying to be more gentle, because quite honestly, I it's not something that I got growing up. It was, you know, not they weren't very patient. And I'm seeing that I am defaulting to that as well.

Yeah.

And I catch myself and I apologize. So, yeah, there's a lot of, you know, I don't think we got that when we were growing up, you know, like the parent was always right. So now.

No. my parents have still yet to say I'm sorry for something. I've never heard them say I'm sorry for something, ever. And I probably never will.

Yeah. So I try to talk it out with them too, because that models that like, hey, you know what, sometimes you do, you do say things that will, will hurt someone else. And you don't, you, you really actually didn't mean that you said it, you said it in, in anger and you wish that you didn't. So you'll work on it next time. So, ⁓ modeling that and also showing them that they should always listen to the other side and not just their right because they feel a certain way. Yeah. ⁓ I'm trying to teach them to listen to the other side too because like I think my parents were really good at that like in in understanding how other people's situations were because I remember like watching the news with them and stuff and they'd make comments about like, my goodness, I can't believe that this is happening and poor family, that sort of stuff. So ⁓ I'd like my my kids to exercise compassion as well and not just jump to conclusions on like, well, they're on the streets, though they're on the streets. ⁓ They must have been they must have done something bad. But I want them to know that, like, hey, they have a story and ⁓ they necessarily didn't do anything bad. They just maybe chose the wrong choices or met met. the wrong people. Yeah, so I'm trying to raise them in an environment that shows compassion, that shows understanding and that shows curiosity.

Mm, I love that. I love that. What, the word gentle to me evokes certain feelings. And, ⁓ you know, I don't, I don't know if I've ever heard

and what kind of feelings.

anybody say that my parents raised me in a gentle way. And I think that's, it's a very interesting word to me because ⁓ when I think about raising my kids, I think about, you know, trying to set them up for success or be ready or things like that. And the word gentle to me is super interesting because to me it also gentle means like compassion and ⁓ in many ways, like understanding and all those things that I never really thought about. ⁓ How do you?

I don't think our generation was raised that way though. It's always like the parent is right. Well, or maybe the immigrant parents anyways. Um, the parents always write parents know best and don't question us. Um, there wasn't that. And it was always, you know, very, I don't think I've, it was set in a gentle way either in a nice way or understand it was always like in anger when that was said. Yeah. But sorry, I interrupted you.

Right. Yeah. Yep. No. Yeah. Oh no, I completely agree. I was just going to go down that same path and that I feel like every single one of the parents that I knew raised their kids the exact same way. don't think like there was much discrepancy in the approach to how parenting was happening in the 80s and 90s and early 2000s.

I think it does, I think it will eventually build a generation that is open to listening to where other people are coming from. ⁓ And that your experience doesn't necessarily mean that ⁓ that other people have have gone through the same thing. So just because you were able to do something doesn't mean that ⁓

Yep. Yep.

someone else failed because they weren't able to do it. You don't know their circumstances.

Yeah, the comparison I make to... ⁓ parenting and work, there's, there's a lot of similarities as I've been thinking about it the last couple of months in that you see yourself sometimes fail, ⁓ quote unquote fail at work because maybe you didn't get the project or you didn't land the sale or you didn't release something on time. And, and so you think of yourself as having failed that body of work. And I think about when I. failed as a parent too and that maybe I should have talked to my daughter a little bit earlier or you know maybe I wasn't hard enough on her and so she's gone and done something ridiculous and you know it's come back to bite her in the ass and the the idea of like parenting and then your approach also in work to me is an interesting one because your disposition for how you actually communicate and the things you do to get yourself ready to be a good parent, I think are very similar to what you do to be a good colleague and coworker and the successes you see there. Yeah.

Yes. Yeah. Like, why would you be a different person? Like, why would you treat your kids any differently than your colleagues? Like, they're people. I mean, it's one thing if you're in a leadership role, you sort of, you know, have to guide your employees. But if it's your colleague at the same level as you, you wouldn't treat them like...

Yeah.

you treat them with understanding too. I think I don't know. I guess it depends on the organization that you're in, but like the company that I work for right now, they're very understanding of, you know, family circumstances and stuff too. So I really that that that does alleviate a lot of the stress for me because you know, if my daughter's like we have unlimited sick days. So if I'm sick, I don't have to worry about like I don't have to worry about using up vacation time. can just call in sick or if know, my kids are sick, I don't have to worry about like you again using my sick days because we have unlimited sick days and nobody really takes advantage of that. It's kind of like paid time off. Do you ever hear that conversation about like companies that offer paid time off? They don't even the employees actually.

Mhm. Never, never take it.

Yeah, the employees never actually really take that much off that much time off. So it's kind of like the sick days. So you don't have to feel like that's how I look at it with our sick days. Like nobody really takes advantage of it. And it's nice to have that. ⁓

Yep. Yep. Yep. Yeah, I mean, I took more time off working in the DOD with my two weeks than I did with my unlimited holiday vacations that I had just because like, you know, you were mentally, you felt guilty to some extent of taking that time. And so you never took it. You never took it.

Right. Yeah. Mm hmm. Yeah. And then like, you know, with the virtual work and everything, if you're kind of feeling under the weather, like even my boss on Monday after the after the weekend of the event, I told him and I was like, yeah, I lost my voice. I'm not feeling good. He's like, oh, so are you going to are you going to take the day off work today? I'm like, oh, no, no, I can I can I just can't talk. I just can't talk. But I get my brain is fully functional. So.

Right?

Yeah, but I can work from the computer and make phone calls, but I can't talk for very long. that's all. Yeah. But he's very understanding. And I think for the most part, like people don't take advantage of that, right? Unless they're not right for the job.

Right? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, and also, like to your point, there's organizations that have... maybe a little bit more compassion to things that are happening in your life. And there's organizations that I've been a part of that, you know, are stone cold and it is very transactional and there's like really not much that you're getting out of that besides a paycheck. And I can see that being the same way with some of these families that I've been around as a kid of ⁓ classmates where I would like walk around just think, how the fuck

Mm-hmm.

did you grow up this way? It just seems very stone cold and not like a great place to grow up because their parents were like super absent or it was like you know just things that I didn't think would be a healthy place to grow up but it just shows that your the mentality that you have of how you're actually like parenting going back to our original conversation also I think carries over to you know how you actually

Bye. Mm-hmm.

like work and the places that that make you right you end up working at for sure.

that you end up working at. Yeah, yeah, I know I used to, you know, I've worked in corporations where like you just felt like they're just taking advantage of you. And that those those roles don't last long. Like at most they were a year. So yeah, it's very it's a good way to maintain ⁓ employee retention with being compassionate and understanding.

Yeah. Yeah. No, I agree. But a last question for you before we wrap up here. ⁓ What message would you give to people that are in this transition place that are maybe flailing or thinking about what they want to do next and are on that like precipice of starting something but don't have the courage yet or the idea yet, what advice would you give them to get over that hump and eventually strike out on their own or have the courage and bravery to do that next thing?

If you don't know exactly what it is that you want to do yet, just do something. Cause action leads to least opportunities and you're going to meet the right people. You're going to start talking about ideas. And once you get that idea, just do it. You're not going to be an expert at it in the beginning.

Yeah.

but just jump right in and nobody actually is really watching. So nobody's watching like what you're doing. and for those, and don't be like scared of criticism. Like most people will just say things in passing and it really doesn't matter anyways. Yeah. I, I think, yeah. When you asked me that question about, ⁓ what if I was afraid of what the community would think. ⁓ I think it was only for like honestly like five seconds. I thought about that. I'm like, and they're not, they're not doing it. So I'll do it. And if they, if they think anything negative, then whatever, right? Like when you put yourself out there, there's going to be, there's going to be people who look at you and be like, okay, well, I don't.

Yeah.

What are they going to do with this? And I probably can do that too, but their words don't matter and just do it. You're going to have, you're going to meet the right people. Just pick something and, and go with the flow. And yeah, the ideas will come that way and don't rush it. That's another thing. Don't rush it. Like don't feel like you have to figure it out. ⁓ I think one of my guests, Gail, saw Actually, I'd like you to connect with him because he moved from Serbia to Cambodia and he'd be a great guest on your show. Yeah. Yeah. He he said that I forget what question I asked him, but he's like, you know, I often don't know like where I'm going. I don't have like this. I don't have this clear idea of what I want to do. I just kind of pick something that interests me and then it's it's worked out.

⁓ wow. Wow.

And he's had like some pretty impressive roles, too. So, ⁓ yeah, yeah. So, yeah, just pick something you're interested in. Don't rush it. Things will things will work out and you're to meet the right people. The ideas, the ideas will start coming. Like, for example, like the nonprofit that ⁓ the Cambodian Cultural Center, like it's just everything's just moving so fast. And, you know, 2020 when I was having this these feelings,

Right?

I didn't know what it was, what was going to happen five years later. And now five years later, like all of a sudden we appeared. It's like, and same with my voices. Like I'm just meeting incredible people everywhere. And it just, I just kind of went with what I was interested in. And then the idea for a podcast came, I think in like 2023. So it took a while, but I was just, I just kept like trying to, I just kept researching my roots because I was interested in that. So yes, if you're interested in something, go for it. Do something about it. Like it doesn't even have to be something big like starting a podcast. It can just be like reading about it and talking to people about it. And then that's when maybe the idea of a book will come or like, ⁓ it doesn't even have to be a book. Maybe you're just constantly researching the whole time too, but something will come out of it.

Yeah. Yeah, I love that just the action and being positive with the action will lead to things. ⁓ Funny, I'm so glad that the universe brought us together and.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, we met on LinkedIn, right?

I'm so proud. Yeah, I'm so proud of the universe for bringing us together. I'm proud of your one year with Kami Voices and I'm exceptionally proud of your nonprofit and I thank you for being on the show.

Yay! thank you. Well, you know what's that I look forward to celebrating your one year too.

Well, 11 more months, my friend.

and your book coming out, right? Well, you're writing your book and I've subscribed to your sub stack as well. Or is it your blog?

Thank you. Yeah. Yep, that one's been collecting dust for sure. I need to get back to it.

You got a lot on your plate right now. So yeah, I'm excited to see things transpire for you as well.

Yeah. Thank you so much. ⁓ Hey, stay safe on Halloween, okay? Alright, I'll talk to you later. Alright, bye.

yeah, you too. Bye.