Danielle Frank on Quitting Without a Plan and the Book She Carried for 14 Years

Savan Kong (00:03.436)

Welcome to Work Unscripted. I'm your host, Savan, and today I've got my friend, Danielle Frank. Danielle, how are you?

Danielle Frank (00:11.836)

I'm great. Thanks for having me on your fabulous podcast. I'm happy to be here.

Savan Kong (00:15.373)

I appreciate that. It's great to have you on. We've got a lot of things to cover today from how you got to where you are to talking about your book and then maybe looking forward a little bit on predictions of how you see yourself in the future. But before we get into all of that, I want to ask you, so you had sent me some information about yourself. One of the things that you'd sent me that

I found really interesting was you described yourself as a veteran of pivots. So my question to you is if you had to introduce yourself at a dinner party to a group of strangers, not with your title, how would you describe yourself?

Danielle Frank (01:05.856)

out if it's going to be leaning on the pivot, I'd say the pivotal princess. I don't know. I don't think I'm a princess, but I just wanted to have a you know, catchy thing with something with P. don't, you know, other things with P could be, you know, bad. I don't want to be a pushy pivotal person or a pivotal person. So I think pivotal princess sounds way better.

Savan Kong (01:13.224)

You should tag me.

Savan Kong (01:30.197)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And why did you decide that? Like, how did you, I mean, maybe two questions. How did you come up with the theme of pivoting as sort of, you know, a cornerstone of your identity? Because you mentioned it a bunch of times in our conversations before this. But the other side of that is, you know, when did you start to embrace this idea that you were

comfortable pivoting because it's scary for so many people.

Danielle Frank (02:02.267)

It's very scary. Yeah, I mean, think, you know, it's so much of my story. And the interesting thing is I didn't really realize, I knew that my whole story has been rooted in transformation and one that doesn't happen overnight. I've known that's always been my story. I've always been

proud of like my journey along the way, it's really been with the promotion of this book. I've been, you know, doing so many podcasts and you know, first I was just being pitched out to podcasts, you know, related to the book wine, you know, wine lovers guide to parenting and all that. And, then it quickly segued into doing podcasts based on

know, life transformations and, you know, when life doesn't go as planned, all these pivots. And the more I did these, the more the story came out. And, you know, just because I've had, you know, life pivots with changing career, moving from New York to LA, I had a relationship pivot breaking off my engagement and the path of motherhood not having, so all these things I've always known and been proud of and empowered by.

Savan Kong (02:59.777)

Mm-hmm.

Danielle Frank (03:16.735)

and let it propel me forward, but talking about it more, was like, wow, this really is the crux of my story. Being an author and promoting this book is just a piece of that puzzle, but really, and I think it's because I've really leaned into it, instead of letting those detours define me, I learned to rewrite my story entirely. so,

Today, I speak openly about bucking traditional timelines, embracing the light that looks different than the expected checklist and discovering freedom, humor and purpose in the unplanned. And I think, you know, I've realized that more and more my perspective resonates with anyone who's, you know, going through that felt behind, felt off track or uncertain because, you know, I've learned that the most meaningful life often begins where the original plan ends.

Savan Kong (03:59.776)

Yeah.

Savan Kong (04:07.497)

Yeah, I love that. I love that. I mean, the thing that I find so interesting about your story, and we'll get into the details here in a little bit, is that every time you've had a pivot, they're not small pivots by any means. They're pretty drastic. Like you're changing locations or you're changing sort of like how you're approaching life because relationships have changed within the dynamics of.

you know, your life in general, I would love to know, you know, what are some of the things that you've done to help you gracefully, or maybe not even gracefully, like get from, you know, point A to point B to whatever that next point is, because, you like I mentioned, pivoting is hard, transitions are hard, and I think the people that do it the best have a general approach, and I would love to maybe hear about your secret sauce to

to how you've done it over the years.

Danielle Frank (05:06.527)

Yeah, I mean, if I'm being candid, you I think it started with a little, I don't want to say naivety, right? you know, when, well, the first big move was moving from New York to LA, leaving my cushy job at Miramax International in New York, realizing that I wanted to move to California. You know, so some of it was just naivety of, I was young, I was late twenties, you I didn't have a family, I didn't have a home. I didn't have to worry about like, you know,

Savan Kong (05:19.594)

Mm-hmm.

Savan Kong (05:33.311)

Mm-hmm.

Danielle Frank (05:35.967)

ramifications of like picking up and leaving. I think, know, first and foremost, you know, my dad was always a big influence to me of like, living the life that you want to live. Like, you know, I just, he showed me from an early age about enjoying life to the fullest and doing with it what you can, what you want, because we have one life to live and you want to do with it what you want. And so at the end, you know, my

My late 20s, I was still living in New York. Like I said, working at Miramax International, traveling the world, going to the Venice Film Festival, Cannes Film Festival. I was dating my best friend, my boyfriend for several years and all of our friends were starting to get married. And I just sort of had this like internal, you know, because I've always sort of believed in living the life that you wanna live, I just had this feeling in my gut that...

wait, I'm not ready quite yet to settle down. Like, there's still so much I wanna do. I've always loved California. I really wanna do that. Like, am I ready to just, you know, settle down now? And, you know, of course, when you think about getting married, you don't think about divorce, you think of long-term. I just started, it started to be jarring to me, like, wait, I'm not ready for that part of my life yet. So, you know, a lot of it was just young ambition. And like I said, you know,

not necessarily naivety, but not having those responsibilities. And then I moved out to LA. so this was my career pivot was really, this was one of the defining moments on how I learned to embrace and empower and feel empowered by the pivots is I moved out here and there was no film studio jobs. And, you know, I always liked working on the films, you know, we traveled with the talent, but

Savan Kong (07:23.114)

Mm-hmm.

Danielle Frank (07:27.741)

they had their publicist managing them. As you can imagine, there's a lot of personalities involved in working with actors and actresses. But there were no studio jobs at the time. one of the agencies that represented talent, they were looking for somebody. And once I had it in my head that I want to move to California, that's it. You can't change my mind. I'm ready to go. so I was like, you know what? I'm just going to, yeah, I'm sure I'll love being a personal publicist.

Savan Kong (07:33.619)

Right.

Savan Kong (07:50.365)

I love that.

Danielle Frank (07:57.329)

You know, the first day I walked into this PR firm, one, it was a really toxic PR firm. was run by these two women who very combative. I walked in on the first day and three publicists were like in their office crying. And it was just, yeah. And I was like, what did I get myself into? Like there was a lot of swimming. It was very toxic. And so I was there three months and I'm there.

Savan Kong (08:06.217)

Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Savan Kong (08:16.836)

man.

Savan Kong (08:23.367)

Wow.

Danielle Frank (08:24.199)

and I'm very type A. I wouldn't quit without having another job, but in those three months, so I will say this, when I was at Miramax Films for over six years, of course there are days you're like, I don't want to go to work, I just want to stay in bed, but there was never a day where I had that pit in my stomach, that angst, that anxiety, like, God, I don't want to go into work. I never had that feeling. When I was in LA at the three months at the PR firm,

I have many mornings, I had that feeling in my stomach of, God, just don't even want to go into work. And like, what is this feeling that I'm having? This is an awful feeling. This is no way to live. You know, we spend most of our time at work and, know, while, you know, while, you know, it's hard to find something you want to be at every day. It's like, we need to enjoy it in some capacity. This is where we spend most of our lives. So that is something happened where like,

Savan Kong (09:06.995)

Mm-hmm.

Savan Kong (09:17.074)

Yeah.

Danielle Frank (09:21.855)

they just were, they were kind of, I don't know, they kind of flew off the handle about something like one of our clients did. And I just, out of nowhere, was like, you know what, this is a great opportunity, thank you. But my personal health, that feeling in my stomach, that ulcer inducing feeling, I was like, this isn't any way to live. And so I quit without having another job.

Savan Kong (09:41.821)

Yeah.

Danielle Frank (09:51.647)

So again, you know, maybe there's again a little naivety in there like, oh, you know, no, I don't have a house in order to a family. I don't have to worry about that. I'll be fine. But that was the first defining moment of me. Like my health and wellness and my happiness is more important and believe in yourself that you're going to find something. And then I did find something completely in a different field in the wine and spirits industry. Thought it would be temporary. I was like, Oh, this sounds great.

Savan Kong (09:51.878)

Yeah.

Savan Kong (10:00.925)

Mm-hmm.

Savan Kong (10:20.838)

Yeah.

Danielle Frank (10:22.035)

My sister worked for the agency that worked for Bacardi in New York. She heard about this job. I thought it'd be temporary. And here I am, know, 22 plus years later, still in the industry. I worked at Bacardi for over 10 years, and now I've been with Malenna C for over, I'm coming 12 years. And so, you know, that in a nutshell was taking that leap. You know, one, I think from Cal, from New York to LA,

Savan Kong (10:28.679)

Mm-hmm.

Savan Kong (10:36.167)

Wow.

Danielle Frank (10:50.877)

started to build my confidence. You can do it, you can do it. Just take the leap and go for it. And then taking that leap of leaving that company and leaving the security of my job and knowing that I came out of it, it continued to build my confidence. you know, all the subsequent big pivots in my life, like breaking off my engagement, you know, it's just, I've always built in this confidence in myself that I can, I know how to get myself back up when I fall down.

Savan Kong (11:05.544)

Mm-hmm.

Savan Kong (11:11.271)

Yeah.

Danielle Frank (11:19.517)

and I know how to keep moving.

Savan Kong (11:19.708)

Yeah. Yeah. Wow. That's a lot. Maybe try to frame it for me then. So you were at Miramax in New York. You were there for six years. Then you'd moved to LA. You were at this PR firm for three months and then you got into the wine and spirits business and you were there. You're still there for 22 years. You'd mentioned you were engaged.

Fill me in on when that had happened because I feel like, you know, in many ways there's layers to the things that affect us. know, personal relationships is probably a big one. Your personal health is a big one. Finances and all these things are sort of put together and they influence our ability to either be resilient or just say, I'm done with this situation. I'm going to move on. How did

how did your moving to a new place, a new location, and that alone is jarring for many people, but how did that mixed in with this engagement that you had, mixed in with a new job? Like, take me to that world. What was life like for you back then?

Danielle Frank (12:36.947)

Yeah, so, you know, again, I, you know, I'm out in LA now, I'm working in the wine and spirits industry at Muppet Carty at the time. And I, you know, now I'm like, you know, early thirties, like 32 when I met my, my ex. And so now I'm thinking, okay, I'm ready to embark on that next chapter. And now I, you know, I've accomplished moving out here. I'm settled out in California. I'm settled in this new career. Okay. I'm ready for that next step of parent, of,

being married and having kids, which is something I desperately wanted. So I was with this gentleman for about six, seven years, and he has kids from the first marriage. there were, let's just say there were a lot of things in the relationship that weren't, you know, through the years making me happy. But ultimately what I realized is that he really didn't want any more kids, and I did.

Savan Kong (13:28.006)

Mm-hmm.

Savan Kong (13:34.489)

Hmm

Danielle Frank (13:35.731)

But I think.

One, said, I have no regrets. I had to go through it to come out of it. And breaking it off, it can be emotionally costly. It could change your I feel like it's changing your identity. But I quickly realized that I felt like while I was in it, I started to see how unhappy I was in the relationship. And that...

Savan Kong (14:03.589)

Right.

Danielle Frank (14:05.599)

So having gone through the career pivot and remembering like, that was an awful feeling not wanting to go to work. And, you I don't want to have that feeling. Well, when I started to have that feeling of loneliness and a happiness in the relationship, that's when started to be like, wait, you don't need to stay in this. You got out of something before with your career because it wasn't serving you and it wasn't making you happy.

And I just realized that being unhappy in something is not a place to be, whether that's career or relationship. And so when I got out of it, it really clarified my values. most importantly, it showed me what I do and don't want in a relationship and what I won't settle for and stand for in the future. So again, having gone through all these life, you know, moving and the career pivot, it showed me I'm resilient. It showed me that I'll figure it out. It showed me that I'll propel myself forward.

Savan Kong (14:38.598)

Mm-hmm.

Danielle Frank (15:00.903)

And then it showed me that, you know, I was happier when I got out of something that made me miserable. And so, you know, I did that with my career and that's how the relationship I'll never forget. the day, you know, one of the, one of the many things that drove me, you know, that made me unhappy with my ex besides him not wanting kids was he was always, he didn't want more kids because, know, he, he was married. had kids before. Now he just wanted to chase the party all the time.

Savan Kong (15:27.011)

Mmm. Mmm.

Danielle Frank (15:27.583)

And I was nearing 40 at this point. I'm like, I'm ready now to settle down, you know, always wanting to stay out to the bitter end, you know, it's like, and, so I remember that first night in my new apartment, I was meeting friends for drinks and it was like, I don't know, let's say nine 30 10. And I was like, you know what? I'm tired. I'm going home. Bye guys. Went home late in my bed with like a smile on my face. I'm like, I was tired. I came home. I did what I want to do.

Savan Kong (15:34.969)

Yeah, yeah.

Savan Kong (15:48.634)

Yeah.

Savan Kong (15:54.341)

Yeah, yeah, hell yeah. Hell yeah.

Danielle Frank (15:57.375)

And that's it. Like I honestly, I can honestly say I didn't cry a single day once I had moved out. I felt such relief and freedom. So again, that just was another chapter in the story of my pivotal life. Just reinforcing what I see that like when you take the leap and you believe in your gut and believe in yourself, you're not going to stay in the stuck mode and be unhappy.

Savan Kong (16:14.564)

Yeah.

Savan Kong (16:24.931)

Yeah, I love that for many reasons, but I also am in my mid 40s now and I don't stay out late if I don't have to anymore. And I'll be the first one to sleep in my house typically, which had never happened in my 20s. It's one of those things where, you know, as I do more reflection of life in general, we have these phases that we go through and we have different values of different things that bring us happiness and joy.

and different things that challenge us. And knowing when you are going through those things and understanding how to embrace them rather than try to push through those things. Like if you don't like staying out until one or two, don't hang out with people that stay out until one or two. Like it's as simple as that. But many times we make it so much harder than it should be.

but it sounds like you are now at a great place in your life and you've worked in the wine industry, which by the way, I love wine. So we'll have to talk shop after the podcast recording, but tell me a little bit more about the industry itself. Because on the outside, it looks glamorous, it looks awesome. But I don't know anything about the inside. Tell me a little bit about what it's like.

Danielle Frank (17:43.903)

I mean, you know, it's, it is a great industry, but like anything, right? You know, it's, it's a job. So at first people were like, do you just, when I was at Bacardi, like, do you just sit around drinking Bacardi and Grey Goose all day? No, that's not what we're doing. We're not sitting around drinking. You know, it's a company like anything else with IT, with HR, with sales marketing.

Savan Kong (17:51.203)

Right.

Savan Kong (17:57.4)

Yeah.

Savan Kong (18:01.208)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Danielle Frank (18:08.423)

Yeah, so I, but it's a really fun industry. know, I mean, I think also anything is fun when you're passionate about it and when you're representing brands that you believe in. And, you know, I've been very fortunate to work for companies with fantastic brands, with fantastic history. I really love the historical aspect of it. mean, growing up, I was not interested in history, but this is the thing I've, the romanticism of it all of what goes on behind

the creation of these brands and the history behind all of them is remarkable. So yeah, was at Picardy for over 10 years. was running the LA market and then moved into what's called national accounts. So I work with national groups at the corporate level. And when I moved to Moat Hennessy, which is we represent the finest champagnes in the world like Dom Pérignon, Buff Rico, Moat and Chandon, Krug.

Savan Kong (18:48.142)

Mm-hmm.

Savan Kong (18:58.189)

Mm-hmm.

Savan Kong (19:03.821)

Yeah. Yeah.

Danielle Frank (19:06.559)

You also have wine, spirits, Hennessy Belvedere. So I have been working, leading the resort sub channel, calling on all the major resort group and leisure groups at the corporate level. So I deal with Marriott International, Four Seasons, so forth. It's great. It's considered sales, but I really look at it as a hybrid of sales and marketing. We're really being strategic of how we

present our brands and pitch it and how we can collaborate on marketing programs within the corporate structure. It's great. It's like I said, when you have brands you believe in and luckily, you know, they're great companies to work in. It's a really fun industry. But yeah, you know, like I said, we're not sitting around drinking, but there are some amazing things and opportunities that have come our way. I've gotten to go to many events that we sponsor.

Savan Kong (19:43.031)

Mm-hmm.

Danielle Frank (19:59.327)

But the best part is when, like in the fall, I get to go to Champaign and visit our homes. When you're walking down into the caves and the creers and seeing over 200 years of history in these caves, it's it's mind blowing, it really is.

Savan Kong (20:05.089)

Ooooo

Savan Kong (20:14.936)

Yeah.

Savan Kong (20:22.079)

Wow. Danielle, you've been in this industry for so long. What do you think are some of the common values that these places, these companies exhibit that you have personally attached to? Because like you mentioned before, your work is a majority of your life. You're spending eight to 10 to 12 hours helping companies build whatever brand it is.

But I also feel like in order for somebody to fully commit to that, the values have to line up. What are some values that these companies represent that you find exceptionally important so that you're now committing over two decades of your life to it?

Danielle Frank (21:09.001)

Yeah, I mean, think with most companies, it's one it's, you know, it's about the passion, right? You have to be passionate about, you know, the work that you're doing, the brands that you're representing. When I say brands, like I remember when I was, when I first interviewed with Bacardi, they were like, you came from film PR, like how are you a match for this job? And I said,

We're all selling something. We're all selling, whether it's an image or an idea of a film, we're all selling an idea. Now it's selling a product. It's about the passion you have behind what story you're telling. And that's the other thing is storytelling. You have to, and with these brands I represent, it's all about, not only Moat Hennessy, but we're under the LVMH banner.

Savan Kong (21:39.628)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Savan Kong (21:48.546)

Yeah.

Danielle Frank (22:01.147)

LVMH represents the most iconic brands with such histories. So we're all about that storytelling because that's what luxury is. Luxury is storytelling, know, the craftsmanship, the heritage. That's what luxury is. That's what builds the connection with people. And so I love that. I feel impassioned and excited to share these stories and share the brands and share.

Savan Kong (22:01.216)

Mm-hmm.

Savan Kong (22:04.82)

yeah. yeah.

Danielle Frank (22:29.511)

you know, the curation of such, you know, I'm shepherding these brands, you know, how they're meant to be. you know, I think really, you know, belief in your brands and passion is everything and belief and passion in whatever you're doing, you know, I mean, look, you know, it's, I know it's not so easy out there in the job market. My niece is just graduated and she's out there and she's like, I only want to work here, here and here. And I'm like, listen, gear up, like,

Savan Kong (22:52.288)

Mm-hmm.

Danielle Frank (22:57.563)

Unfortunately, that's not how it goes. know, mean, it's, it's really hard. It's very competitive. So I get not everybody gets the job that they want to do. You know, you might be selling, you know, pipes or toilets, whatever it is, you know, if that's your means to an end, like, as long as you just get behind and feel passionate about it and excited, like, you know, and you can get excited about it. can get excited by toilets because it's

Savan Kong (23:00.588)

Yeah.

Danielle Frank (23:26.589)

You know, if that's your means to an end, then that could be your excitement is just knowing that is putting food on the table. And just as long as you're building excitement and believing in yourself and your abilities, and that's what you need to do, then it'll show, it'll show in your work. It'll show when you're selling your brand or your product or yourself.

Savan Kong (23:45.759)

Yeah, yeah, I think that's amazing. mean, the it's probably a great segue to talking a little bit about the book because the one thing that I am absolutely fascinated about, especially with with authors, whether you're a first time author or you've published two or three books, is there's this delicate balance of commitment to the craft of writing, but also the

the rigorous sort of structure of trying to get something published, because I'm sure it's exceptionally hard. For you, you're doing your job with the wine industry, and then you're writing this book over a period of years. You talked about selling toilets and having that be a means to an end. Take me through that process for you. How did this book get started?

And how did you manage to write it while you're doing all these other things?

Danielle Frank (24:44.393)

So, you know, writing has always been a passion of mine. It's just a creative outlet. Like, you know, an example of this is like when I broke off my engagement, like that's how I process things. Like I just, I just would like write my feelings down. I mean, that's, to me, that's therapy, you know. For a lot of people, therapy works like talking to a psychologist or psychiatrist. I'm not saying it doesn't work for me. I don't know.

Savan Kong (24:58.368)

Mm-hmm.

Savan Kong (25:05.524)

Mm-hmm.

Danielle Frank (25:14.239)

I just know like when I was in my relationship and I wasn't happy, I talked to a therapist and I found I was lying to the therapist. And I was like, that's not how it should be. Like I wasn't being honest, know? Not really lying, but I wasn't being honest. And that's the whole idea therapy is like they're trying to get it out of you, you know, so you can hear it for yourself and bring everything to the surface. So for me, that's what writing is. It's a creative outlet. you know, I've always just...

Savan Kong (25:24.788)

Yeah, yeah.

Danielle Frank (25:41.183)

I writing projects like actual children's books, series ideas. I just, when things come in my head, I have a creative personality. When things came down, I just liked to write. so when I, so writing this book came about in many ways. So I just broken off the engagement.

And realizing that, and I was my late 30s, right? So now I was faced with this, what if this path of motherhood doesn't happen for me? And at that same time, but I, let me backtrack, realizing that that path might not happen for me, but I have such a maternal instinct,

Savan Kong (26:23.987)

Mm-hmm.

Savan Kong (26:38.846)

Mm-hmm.

Danielle Frank (26:39.179)

I'm very involved in my niece and nephew's lives. I'm an auntie and yelled at many of my friends' kids. I was a bonus mom to my ex's kids for all of those years. So I realized though, like just because the path of motherhood might not happen to me, it doesn't mean the nurturing goes away. And so I was watching my niece and nephew and they were young at the time. And even though they're great kids, of course, every kid has the propensity to, you know, to whine a little bit.

Savan Kong (26:46.683)

Awesome. Awesome.

Savan Kong (26:54.409)

Yeah.

Savan Kong (27:05.606)

yeah.

Danielle Frank (27:06.631)

So they were whining about something and I said, no, Antigone y'all drinks wine. She doesn't listen to wine. And so there are all the pieces of the puzzle sort of came together pretty quickly for me thinking about, you know, because I'm a wine industry, you know, insider been working in the industry for so long. started to think about, that's really fun. There's really fun, you know, parallels to wine terminology and raising good kids and good human behavior.

Savan Kong (27:25.587)

Yeah.

Danielle Frank (27:33.663)

And then like I said, know, realizing that this path of motherhood might not happen to me, I still wanted to affect, you know, how kids, you know, would be raised one day. You know, I might, realized that I may not be raising children of my own, but I still felt a pull to influence the kind of humans we're all collectively raising. So this book became my way to being part of it. And so, and at the time there was a book that came out called, to Sleep.

Savan Kong (27:52.873)

Right?

Savan Kong (28:02.351)

Yes. Yep.

Danielle Frank (28:03.601)

Wildly popular. mean, you know, went viral. And so it sort of opened the door for this new genre of adult children's book. And so that's where it all came together with for me of, I'm going to write it like a children's book because I've always loved rhyming. I'm really good at rhymes. There's some fun parallels and rhyming, you know, words that you can make it really fun. And I like this idea of making wine approachable. So every time I use wine terminology, I give the definition.

as well. it's a fun, you know, gift book, humor book, but poignant lessons of just basic human behavior, right? Teaching kids manners and not to be a bully and giving them room to breathe. So they learn how to get up when they fall, figuratively and literally. All those things, you know, started to, yeah, started to put it together. But then when I wrote this 14 years ago, as you can imagine,

Savan Kong (28:50.962)

Right.

Danielle Frank (28:59.837)

getting published is very hard. And like you said, with a full-time job, back then it was even harder. Like we weren't using the internet as wildly as we are now. And it seemed like agents don't want you unless you have a publisher. Publishers don't want you unless you have an agent. You can send things in blindly, but that became a full-time job. was like everybody wanted you to print out your book, write a different cover letter. I swear, I felt like I was applying back at college again with like my college essay. And you had to do a different one for each one.

Savan Kong (29:02.248)

Yeah.

Savan Kong (29:13.991)

Yep. Yep.

Savan Kong (29:25.133)

Yes. Yeah.

Danielle Frank (29:29.053)

So sadly, that's why I shelved it for a long time, because I just, couldn't do it with a full-time job that's paying my bills. Obviously that's priority number one. So that's why I had shelved bringing this to fruition all this time. And fast forward, you know, this has always been something that's plagued me. I said, if I do nothing with this, it's, you know, this is going to be what plagues me on my death bed.

I've always gotten good feedback about it. and so through the years, you know, yes, I started hearing about self publishing, but that was daunting. And so last year I started hearing about hybrid publishing, which is pretty much self publishing. You're paying for everything, but you have the guidance of a publisher behind you. And finally, that's when I was like, great. I'm, I'm not going to go to my death bed, you know, saying I should have, let's get this out there. And so, yeah, I brought it to life and.

Savan Kong (30:09.651)

Mm-hmm.

Savan Kong (30:16.456)

You're

Danielle Frank (30:22.891)

yeah, now it's, it's been the joy to, to be promoting it. And yes, it is a full-time job on top of my full-time job, but when it's your passion project and when, you know, you're finally talking about your baby and the thing that you nurtured, it's so rewarding and I'll sleep later on in life when I'm dead, you know, I just, yeah.

Savan Kong (30:30.312)

yeah.

Savan Kong (30:42.48)

Yeah, no, for sure. For sure, for sure. Danielle, what do you want your readers of the book, know, once they finish it, to take away? Like if there were two or three lessons that you as the author want them to take away from this book, what would that be?

Danielle Frank (31:03.027)

I mean, I think the lessons on just instilling these behaviors, instilling these important lessons in your child while they're young, while they're most impressionable, right? And I think the biggest thing, like one of the chapters, which I think,

Savan Kong (31:18.268)

Mm-hmm.

Danielle Frank (31:22.687)

And this has a little bit more serious connotation, but it's, you know, as you're killed, a mold wine mold wines, you, heat up the wine. You it's has spices like star anise and clove and cinnamon. The mold wines are heated spice and sometimes served as a punch. So that, that chapter is about making sure your kids not a mold wine. they heated spice? Are they?

Savan Kong (31:34.395)

Mm-hmm.

Savan Kong (31:43.389)

I love that. It's so funny to me.

Danielle Frank (31:47.551)

So this is about are they being a bully at school? And I really appreciated that a lot of mothers and parents, fathers too, have told me that chapter has resonated with them a lot because it's hard when you're a parent, you don't wanna believe that your kid might actually be the bully one. A lot of parents have said to me that they're like, I'm guilty of being like, not my kid. But hey, you know what? Like when they read that chapter, they're like.

Savan Kong (32:04.773)

Absolutely.

Danielle Frank (32:12.327)

It could be my kid and it's super important that I figure it out and like, heed if somebody's saying that my kid made fun of somebody else, like I need to nip that in the bud now. We don't, you know, we don't want to believe our kid's not perfect, but you know, it's not about being perfect or imperfect. It's about, you know, heeding those lessons early on and fixing the behavior early so it doesn't turn into something that can be far more damaging later on.

Savan Kong (32:38.086)

Yeah, Danielle, you've written this book over the span of years. What do you think has impacted the story over the 14 years that you, when you started writing it to, when you eventually published it? How has that book changed depending on where you are in life?

Danielle Frank (33:02.291)

You know, I mean, in all honesty, I didn't change that much because the way I see it is, and more than ever now with what's going on in the world, we need good, decent human behavior more than ever. And I think that's just transfers, you know, decades over decades and culture after culture. It all boils down to, you know, basic human behavior. Be kind, have manners, don't be a bully.

Savan Kong (33:16.449)

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Danielle Frank (33:31.551)

Be worldly, understand that there are other cultures and people, we look different and be accepting of and expose yourself to all these things to know that we're all living under the same star of skies. So the thematics haven't changed that much because I think year over year and decade over decade, we just need to get back to instilling basic decent human behavior.

Savan Kong (33:31.58)

Mm-hmm.

Savan Kong (33:47.985)

Yeah.

Danielle Frank (34:01.075)

and we all need to display it because it seems like a lost art with a lot of people these days with everything you hear online.

Savan Kong (34:07.354)

Yeah, yeah, you know, it's funny. You know, in our initial conversation, we had talked about kids and my wife and I, before we had my daughter, she's 12 now, you know, she had kids of her own and they're essentially my kids. when we got together, they were four and nine and now they're close to their 30s and early 20s. But the thing about being a stepdad is

At least for me, I always felt like I still had that shared responsibility of making sure that these kids were raised correctly, that they knew values, that they understood how to act properly in public, and all those things that a parent should be doing. The challenging thing when you're sort of in that is sometimes you don't see the big picture. Like you mentioned, sometimes you don't know your kid is a bully.

And the thing that I loved about my core friend group and my family was they had the ability to look from the outside in and say, hey dude, I think you're missing these five things. How has your sort of perspective of being the aunt and helping to raise your ex's kids for those couple years, how has that sort of like outside perspective?

influenced a lot of the lessons that you wrote into this book because good lord, if you were to write a parenting book, it could be a million chapters, right? There's a lot of things that can go in there, but the things that you did want to pull out, how has your perspective influenced those things?

Danielle Frank (35:49.503)

Yeah. And I say that that's also sometimes that's the secret sauce, right? Being, being not in it. You know, I say that I've, I've, I've heard parents trade war stories like battle hardened soldiers, right? Sometimes when you're in the trenches, it's hard to see what's in front of you. It's hard to see that the grape juice you're drinking can turn into a fine Cabernet, right? Sometimes I think having that outsider perspective, that fresh perspective, but also as somebody who's vested in their

Savan Kong (35:54.383)

Yeah.

Yep.

Savan Kong (36:02.618)

Right.

Savan Kong (36:09.803)

Yeah.

Danielle Frank (36:18.439)

you know, in wanting to see like, like I said, my niece and my nephew, my friends, kids, you know, call me at Danielle being a bonus mom, so my ex's kids, you know, you're equally as invested in their well being and, their development of who they become. And so, you know, I think it can, you know, it helps to have that sort of fresh and outside, I call it an outsider insider perspective, because I am involved, you know, and that's the thing you don't need to have birthed.

kids to want to shape them mold them and instill great things in them and to have their best well-being in mind. So I think having that parallel access to them and gives you a fresh perspective without judgment, but with concern and care and the same level of depth and love that you want to make sure that they turn out great.

Savan Kong (37:14.511)

Yeah, yeah, I love that. I absolutely love that. Danielle, walk me through the process of you being resilient enough to eventually get this published. Because like we mentioned before, it's really, really hard. And there are days where you could just leave it, you know, collecting dust in the corner somewhere. But at some point in your life, you were like, OK, this has to happen. I'm going to do it.

Talk me through that process of how you committed to yourself to get this thing across that finish line.

Danielle Frank (37:48.947)

Yeah, I mean, once I start, you know, as I said, this it's always been something in the back of my head. And like every so often I'd bring it out of the archives and have somebody read it and get great feedback. And so, yeah, this has always been just sort of gnawing at the back of my mind of like, when am I going to bring this to fruition? And as I mentioned, you know, once I heard about this hybrid publishing, you know, it's scary as a big investment. The promotion of it continues to be an investment.

I don't think it's not resonating yet with sales and it's, you but you know, the first accomplishment was I'm getting it out there. That's, that already is like a huge accomplishment to me. Of course you set, you know, once you, once you do it, you set continuous goals for yourself. great. Now, now when the next goal be like, wouldn't it be great if I just make back the money I invested this? Wouldn't it be great if like it went viral and you you set all these goals, but I think, you know, the biggest thing is

Savan Kong (38:38.829)

Yeah.

Danielle Frank (38:46.047)

knowing that I got it out there, knowing that I'm giving it all. As you said, sometimes it gets hard with the promotion of it. Like I've hired like a media agency and you wonder like, is my money well served here? Is this doing anything? But at the same time that I'm like, well, I can't stop now. I gotta keep going. And...

Savan Kong (39:09.347)

Yeah, you're committed.

Danielle Frank (39:11.271)

I'm committed and like I said, it's something that's your baby, something that you nurtured, I want to see it from birth to I send it off to college, know, essentially. I want to see this through and it's been fun. It's been worth it. if it only becomes a success for me personally and it doesn't become a huge success, I'll have no regrets. And like I said, this has been so fun, again, when you get to promote your book, but

Savan Kong (39:21.293)

Yeah.

Danielle Frank (39:40.639)

doing all these podcasts. You know, first I started doing podcasts and interviews just about the book and then it's it's segued into so many other things. Now I'm doing so many podcasts based on, like you said, the pivot story and the transformation story because so many people it's like, you know, there I just I always say there's no yellow brick road to Oz. There are so many paths along the way and every person can relate to that. And there's

Savan Kong (39:48.237)

Right?

Savan Kong (40:04.505)

Mm-hmm.

Savan Kong (40:08.116)

Mm-hmm.

Danielle Frank (40:08.541)

You know, so I love having these honest, you know, candid conversations with people. I'm talking about these things because if it helps empower even one person to know that they're not alone and that life pivots are are are guaranteed to happen in some form, you know, whether it's career, whether it's relationship or just whether, you know, it's very rare that you've set out a clear

Savan Kong (40:29.144)

Yeah.

Danielle Frank (40:35.497)

rule book for yourself that you're going to follow for the rest of your lives. And so, you know, I love getting to talk about it. like I said, if it empowers even one person to know that they can do it and know that it's okay, I know that it's just a story, another chapter in the storybook of their life. I think it's amazing.

Savan Kong (40:54.06)

Yeah. Danielle, you'd mentioned to me that US Weekly did a feature on you and the book. I'm sure this is probably during your tour of the promotion of it. What was the... Did you have a pinch me moment where you're like, holy smokes, somebody else is interested in my book, but also this somebody is this organization as big as US Weekly that must have been very exciting.

Walk me through that pinch me moment when you were going through that.

Danielle Frank (41:27.561)

Yeah, it was great. you know, obviously being a publicist back in the day, you know, I've been putting my old publicity hat on in my promotion of my book. A lot has changed in the business, but I still have a lot of contacts and friends still in the business. So a publicist friend of mine was the one that helped me to pitch it to Us Weekly and frame the frame the story of, you know, and especially obviously they're entertainment driven.

Savan Kong (41:35.96)

Yes. Yeah.

Danielle Frank (41:53.843)

Having this story, this element of, I went from red carpets to red wine and brought this story to life was something that, yeah, I'm so glad that they wanted to run and resonate hopefully with their readers, bringing in some fun cues from the entertainment angle of it to talk about my story.

Savan Kong (42:00.118)

Yes.

Savan Kong (42:16.568)

Yeah, that's amazing. Daniel, I wanna maybe dive into who you are as a person a little bit more. One of the things you had sent me was that you lean hard into humor. Tell me a little bit about what that means. Do you use humor to facilitate creativity? Is it a coping mechanism? Is it a way you communicate? Tell me a little bit about that.

Danielle Frank (42:44.511)

I don't think it's a coping mechanism. I just really enjoy making people laugh and making people happy. like, you know, I, I, what was that course? I remember during COVID, I was living with my ex-boyfriend and that there was that, there was that Harvard course, the, the joy, the something about the happiness that people were, a lot of people were doing this online.

Savan Kong (43:00.737)

Uh-huh.

Danielle Frank (43:12.575)

It's like, it's just like the art of like teaching people how to be happy. And I remember my ex-boyfriend was doing that and I was like looking alongside with him. And honestly, like I'm not saying I'm perfect and I'm always happy. Of course you have down moments, but I really, it's been a large part of my life. As I said, you know, wanting to move to LA and then getting out of a job that didn't make me happy and getting out of a relationship that I wasn't happy. And that's kind of been the overarching theme of my life is like,

Savan Kong (43:24.717)

Yeah.

Danielle Frank (43:41.233)

you know, we have one life to live and I want to be as happy as I can be and I want to be as fulfilled as I can be. And, you know, because living in sadness and misery is, you know, I know it's not so easy for people just, you know, things are weighing on them. It's not so easy just to pull yourself out of that. But I really try and lead with that. And so that's why humor has just always been part of my repertoire. I mean, since I was young, like my dad was very funny and always made me laugh and it was a jokester. So I got a lot of that.

Savan Kong (44:09.706)

Yeah.

Danielle Frank (44:10.343)

him, but I also saw like, you know, it's a great connector, like, you know, whether I saw my dad, like he could connect with somebody, you know, a five year old or a 25 year old or an 85 year old, like, it's just a, it's a human connection, you know, when you can make somebody laugh. And so I've had that influence early on. And yeah, I just, I like trying to, you know, put a smile on someone's face and it just makes me feel

a happier human if I can, you know, try and insert a little happiness. Yeah, you know, yeah.

Savan Kong (44:44.084)

Yeah. Speaking of laughing, you'd sent me that you can tie a cherry stem in your mouth. One, I want to get behind the reason why that is one of the facts of all the facts that you'd like to share with me. I found that to be very, very funny. But...

When you discovered this, and this is maybe more of a serious question, when you discovered that you had this talent, when has it ever been useful? Because I can't do it. I've tried it, believe me.

Danielle Frank (45:19.865)

It's just always if you have a cherry in your drink and you're having a cocktail with the friends and it's, yeah, I can tie the cherry into a knot, cherry stem into a knot. It always garners a good laugh and a good moment and lightens the mood.

Savan Kong (45:25.525)

Yeah.

Savan Kong (45:34.72)

Yeah.

Savan Kong (45:39.818)

man, that is so funny. I've tried it so many times and I've given up. And I don't know if it's, you know, cause I don't have the skill or my tongue's in awkward shape or, you know, I don't know what the talent and the skills are behind that. But I applaud you for being able to do that.

Danielle Frank (45:43.816)

You

Danielle Frank (45:55.778)

I don't know if it's a talent or what it is, but I wonder just thinking about it now. It's like, think maybe, I don't know, I could be totally wrong. It could just be that I've trained my tongue how to do it, but I'm really good at puzzles. I love word puzzles. I love crosswords. I love word games. So I don't know, maybe there's an element of that, like just figuring out the, you know, the mechanics in my mouth of how, I don't know, maybe there's.

Savan Kong (46:12.362)

Mm-hmm.

Savan Kong (46:23.638)

man, yeah, once somebody figures that out, please let me know, put it in the comments. You've also mentioned to me that you've gone parasailing, hot air ballooning, jumped out of a plane. These are all fantastic things that I would love to do at some point. But you draw the line at bungee jumping.

Danielle Frank (46:23.997)

Something to that.

Savan Kong (46:50.826)

Why is that the line of all the things that's there? Explain to me the logic.

Danielle Frank (46:56.402)

You know, bungee jumping, have no interest in the idea of just free falling and then snapping back. First of all, it sounds very painful. It doesn't sound enjoy. Like, I don't know. Like when I jumped out of a plane, I didn't feel that free fall, like you were going to hit the ground. And I felt secure knowing that, you know, and I did a tandem. So I had an instructor on me. Um, but

Savan Kong (47:02.612)

Yeah. Yeah.

Danielle Frank (47:21.119)

Yeah, the whole idea of just free falling towards the ground and at the last second snapping back sounds awful. And then now with the internet, how we see everything online and you hear about all these mishaps. I'm like, no, no, never going to do it.

Savan Kong (47:28.329)

Yeah.

Savan Kong (47:36.437)

Yeah, yeah. Is there a part of you that's an adrenaline junkie by some means?

Danielle Frank (47:43.711)

You know, I used to be a little bit more when I was younger. mean, I used to love roller coasters and I didn't have a fear of any of that. It's definitely, um, weaned out a little bit as I've gotten older, you know, you're like, yeah. And again, I think the fear also comes with hearing of all, I just saw a roller coaster went off the tracks somewhere. I'm like, the more you hear about this stuff and the older you get, I was like,

Savan Kong (47:49.545)

Yeah.

Savan Kong (47:58.133)

Right.

Danielle Frank (48:12.319)

Yeah, not interested. Not interested.

Savan Kong (48:14.857)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, it's funny, as we were talking about the parenting stuff, one of the things that I struggle with now is you, as a kid, you've done all these things. You you ride a bike without a helmet and you know, you're going skateboarding or you you're playing tackle football with your friends or whatever it may be. And now as I'm a parent, I am like,

you know, the first thing that comes to mind when it comes to any of these activities is like, okay, is that safe? Should you be riding that roller coaster? Should you be doing those things? And it's such a hard balance because you want them to live their lives and experience the joy of the things that you've done. But on the other hand, you're like, I don't know if that roller coaster looks that safe. And it's always such a hard balance.

Danielle Frank (49:08.153)

sure. I've, you I see with my niece and nephew and my friends kids and I also think about the way I grew up too. My parents did not, I didn't have a curfew. They were not like they entrusted in me a lot. And I was the last one of my friends to sort of rebel if you will, like my friend,

Savan Kong (49:15.187)

Mm-hmm.

Savan Kong (49:22.078)

Yeah.

Savan Kong (49:27.828)

What year was that, Danielle? What was your rebellion year?

Danielle Frank (49:32.177)

I don't really have, I mean, I wouldn't say I've rebelled at all. Like, but that's what saying. Like I was the last one to like, you know, start drinking or, you know, like, I don't know. I, but I, I did notice early on, was like my friends whose parents were the strictest were the ones that were like climbing out of their windows. They were the ones that like, you know, were trying to pop, you know, weed or at a young age and lost their virginity at young age.

Savan Kong (49:38.204)

Right, right.

Savan Kong (49:46.964)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Savan Kong (49:54.312)

Yep, yep, yep.

Danielle Frank (49:56.999)

And so I, and for me, I was like, I didn't really have anything to rebel against. I was like, I guess I'll go home. You know, it's a time to go home. And, you know, and so I, I, I saw it an early age. cause I always thought about when I become a parent, you know, I, know it's easier said than done when you actually become a parent, you know, your, your worry level goes up tremendously, but I always felt that was a, there's a fine balance in that, because when you give your kids a little, you know, extension of the leash.

Savan Kong (50:05.022)

Yes.

Danielle Frank (50:26.015)

and a little trust, you you give them the guardrails of like, you know, to use good judgment of, know, if that roller coaster looks rackety, maybe you don't want to go on it, you know, like, I just see that. And I even see it today with my friends and my sister and their kids, like when, when you give them a little extension of the leash, you know, they, it empowers them to make good decisions. And when you try and inhibit and you know,

Savan Kong (50:31.977)

Mm-hmm.

Savan Kong (50:36.979)

Right.

Danielle Frank (50:54.099)

and make all the decisions for them, then more often than not, kids wanna rebel and go the opposite way. So even though you wanna dictate everything, you could be doing more harm because kids are curious, we're all curious, human beings are curious, right? So if something's always being restricted, you're gonna naturally gravitate towards, I wanna do the thing that I'm being restricted against.

Savan Kong (51:02.204)

Right.

Savan Kong (51:10.972)

Yeah.

Savan Kong (51:19.451)

Right, right. Yeah, it's so hard too because there's that, there's the cost of all these things and the older I get, the more I think about life in that way where it's like, this, is whatever it is that I'm going to get worth the cost, is staying out another hour going to be worth the cost of being groggy in the morning, is being too strict with the kids, gonna be at the cost of rebelling maybe a little bit earlier than.

they would have and I don't know how to balance that. I feel like many times, like for me, life has just been, I'm just making it up as I go, right? And like, Lord take the wheel.

Danielle Frank (52:01.975)

all are. We all are. It's all trial and error, right? I mean, and that's the thing. It's all about, anything like PIVOTS, it's about extracting the lessons. Learn how to embrace them, learning what works for you. It's not avoiding the past or, you know, mapping the future. It's extracting the lesson from it. And every transition, every story gives you information. And what matters is whether you use it and how you use it.

Savan Kong (52:06.14)

Right.

Savan Kong (52:13.98)

Yeah.

Savan Kong (52:31.847)

Yeah. Speaking of stories, Danielle, you are the only person on my show that's been on a TV show. And I want to know, one, how did you get on there? And two, what was it like? Tell me that story.

Danielle Frank (52:53.503)

Well, again, with the promotion of my book, I am in hard PR mode. I'm trying to navigate the new way of promotion. guess, like I said, a lot has changed from when I was in the business over 22 years ago. But I think it's a mix of... So one of the appearances I just did, which was really fun, I did...

Savan Kong (52:59.303)

Yeah.

Savan Kong (53:09.555)

Right?

Danielle Frank (53:20.159)

California Live. So I'd mentioned earlier about the Mold Wine chapter in my book about kids not being bullies. So I just, you I started pitching to local California media about, because March, I think it was third or, yeah, March 3rd was National Mold Wine Day. So I just created a pitch.

Savan Kong (53:26.471)

Right.

Savan Kong (53:43.023)

really? Huh.

Danielle Frank (53:44.817)

Yeah, what if I said, what if I come on and make a mold wine, I can revert back and tie it into my book. So, you know, a lot of it is just trying to tap into your creativity of like, you know, looking for a new angle, looking for a new story idea. I'll tell you something for what it's worth. AI Chat GBT has been very helpful. Like, didn't choose, like.

when I had that idea, I was like, great, what are some other ideas that I can pitch? So really building a pitch for that. And so the producer of California Live loved it. I pitched this back in December and she's like, great, let's have this on the books. And so I just taped that March 3rd and man, what a rush, a feeling because again, 22 plus years ago, as I said, I was at Miramax.

Savan Kong (54:07.995)

Right.

Savan Kong (54:24.631)

Amazing.

Danielle Frank (54:32.831)

I was the one with all these actors and actresses and setting up their interviews. So it was definitely in another pinch me moment that like, now I get to hang in the green room and now I'm, it's just super fun. And again, when you're talking about your book and your passion project, wow, it's really, it was another notch in the life belt of accomplishments, that's for sure.

Savan Kong (54:46.256)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Savan Kong (55:01.813)

Yeah, you know even even the ability to reach other people through different means of communication whether it's a book or online or TV or whatnot it's it's one of those things even I didn't think was possible prior to maybe like even 15 years ago but now it's very accessible the world has gotten bigger but also smaller in many ways because you can just reach out to these people

and make that connection a lot easier than back in the 90s or even the early 2000s. For you, how have you been sort of splitting your time between thinking of all these creative ways to promote the book, whether it's on like these TV shows or podcasts, and what's been the inspiration for some of these things? Because I've never even imagined trying to get on a TV show.

or a game show to promote something like that. That is far-fetched to me. But it came up in your brain. How did that come to be?

Danielle Frank (56:08.095)

Also the game show, the game show I went on a couple of years ago. So that was before I was even promoting the book. That was just, that was my, I just, as a kid, I was obsessed with game shows. So as you can see, somebody who got prices right and a hundred thousand dollar pyramid, which is the one that I went on. So that, that just became something like, you know, like I said, I'm very good at trying to check things off my life's bucket list. Like I want to travel to every country. want,

Savan Kong (56:21.125)

What was your favorite?

Savan Kong (56:28.731)

Yeah.

Danielle Frank (56:37.085)

I want to do everything that I can within legal limits, of course. Yeah. So it was always something like, you know, I loved game shows as a kid. was like, this would be fun. so years ago, I just, I was watching reruns of like a hundred thousand dollar pyramid at the end. Michael Strahan says like, if you want to be a contestant. And I took out my phone, did a video and sent it off. then like, I think a year later, I got a text that was like,

Savan Kong (56:40.089)

Right within legal limits. I like the disclaimer there, Danielle.

Danielle Frank (57:04.273)

hi, this is the producer from $100,000 pyramid. was like, this definitely can't be spam. Like that's very specific, you know? Yeah, it was definitely a bucket list moment getting to go on the game show. But you know, the recent stuff with the promotion, yeah, it's become a full-time job. So it is hard. do, you know, it is a lot of juggling, you know, lot of stuff I'm doing on like, that's, know, I'm doing a lot of that on the weekends, like.

Savan Kong (57:11.323)

Yeah.

Danielle Frank (57:33.427)

thinking about, what's like, like Mother's Day is coming up, you know, like that would be a great pitch for, you know, my book. So I've been like sending emails and emails and like trying to pitch out to long lead shows to short term shows. You know, you don't get a lot of responses, but you don't get responses if you don't go out and try. So.

Savan Kong (57:39.856)

Mm-hmm.

Savan Kong (57:53.583)

Yeah.

Savan Kong (57:57.261)

Absolutely.

Danielle Frank (57:58.301)

Yeah, so it's a lot of work on the weekends. I'm not a big sleeper at all. never have been. So I'm always up. My boss always says like, you, you keep, East coast hours. Cause I'm like, I'll be emailing at like, you know, 6 a.m. my time. I'll just naturally I wake up early. I'm not a big sleeper. So, you know, a lot of it is like early mornings or when I'm done with work, a lot of the weekends or I travel a lot for work. So I like having that, like traveling from the West coast to East coast.

Savan Kong (58:08.836)

Yeah.

Savan Kong (58:12.858)

Yeah.

Danielle Frank (58:27.443)

that like five hours on the plane or nobody's bothering me. If I don't have anything I'm working on, then I'll spend to vote some time. yeah, it's finding, you find ways to carve out time when it matters to you for sure.

Savan Kong (58:31.268)

Mm-hmm.

Savan Kong (58:43.332)

Yeah, yeah, I agree. But you know, I'm an early riser too. I kept an East Coast schedule, you know, when I was working for the Pentagon for 10 years. And now that I'm not there anymore, doing the flight between Washington state and DC, my body's just been like, you know, rebelling because I'd wake up at four in the morning still, even though I don't have to. But I also find like that's where most of my creativity comes in as well.

Danielle, I want to maybe talk about the future a little bit and talk about sort of how you're positioning yourself and your book. You said that California isn't where you'll end up. Do you know where you'll end up in the next 10 years? Is that something you're thinking about or is that something that, you know, inspiration strikes, you'll just, you know, take the bull by the horn and go to wherever that calling is.

Danielle Frank (59:41.983)

Well, I definitely have a plan, but as we know, life doesn't always go according to plan. So we'll see. Talk to me in 10 years and see if this happens. I'm early 50s. I'm turning 52 next month. So I still have a oh, thank you. I still have a good amount. Hopefully I'm still working with Moad Hennessy for the next 10 years.

Savan Kong (59:44.358)

okay.

Savan Kong (59:51.57)

huh.

Savan Kong (59:57.763)

Happy birthday.

Danielle Frank (01:00:08.829)

You know, so I plan on staying in California while I'm still working. But when I retire, my goal is to probably head back to New York on the East Coast to just get like a home base. But I want to spend half my year in Europe. I love being in New York. Yeah, so I used to say wanted to move to Italy, but now I spend so much time in France. I love France, but wait, I also love the UK. So I'm like, you know, if I have a home base in New York on the East Coast somewhere,

Savan Kong (01:00:21.497)

Mm-hmm.

Savan Kong (01:00:25.423)

Mmm!

Savan Kong (01:00:37.912)

Yeah.

Danielle Frank (01:00:37.981)

And I can just travel around, not have to settle on one European country. just, I love being abroad. I love, as I said, I love exploring every culture through food, through wine. I'm going to Spain next week, all around the country. So I can't, can't wait to explore that country, which I I've only been to once, just a short stint in Barcelona. So yeah, I just, I want to spend the latter part of my life roaming the globe and experiencing everything that I can. So.

Savan Kong (01:00:57.251)

Yeah.

Danielle Frank (01:01:07.977)

Hopefully that'll be where I spend most of my time.

Savan Kong (01:01:12.494)

Yeah. Daniel, I want to get your take on the ability to push through being stuck. And one of the things I love most about working scripted are the lessons that people have given the listeners about some of the things that help them propel their careers to the next level. For someone who's listening now that feels stuck or they feel like maybe they're in a relationship that is

not as fulfilling as it could be. What would be the thing that you would tell them? So that's the first part of the question. The second part is, are there tactical things, concrete things that they could do to get to a point where they can feel less stuck? Maybe not completely unstuck, but just a little bit less stuck so that they can continue moving forward in some way.

Danielle Frank (01:02:11.711)

I mean, the first part, think, you the most important thing is, isn't avoiding the past, right? It's extracting the lessons from it. you know, and just realizing that each transition hands you a lesson and trying to let that lesson fuel you for the next decision. You know, I think in terms of, you know, being stuck, it's hard. Like, I don't have...

Savan Kong (01:02:21.708)

Mm-hmm.

Danielle Frank (01:02:40.379)

and ABC, I just know like, okay, I think about, I think about there was there was a time when in my, at my current company, they had me doing a role that I wasn't. It wasn't fulfilling me at the time, it was like a temporary situation, we had somebody leave and I was like wearing two hats and, and I felt stuck.

And I remember just I went into sort of that panic mode of like, I love working for Moen Hennessy, but I started looking elsewhere and I almost went with a company. And I remember it was a brand that I just didn't believe in, but I just was like, but it gets me out of this current situation. And I almost took the job. And thank God I didn't because, I.

Savan Kong (01:03:23.457)

Mmm.

Savan Kong (01:03:27.799)

Right.

Danielle Frank (01:03:32.903)

I don't know, I just kind of, think the most important thing is not making any rash decisions, you know, not doing something out of fear, because then that can put you into another precarious situation. You're trying to out of one situation. And if you make a rash decision or you do something solely based out of fear, you know, it's like if you're in a bad relationship, and you just jump into a new relationship, because you don't want to be alone, you know, you might not have taken the time to heed

you know, the lessons from that relationship and you might be, you know, making the same mistakes on the next one. So I think it's just, you know, the most important thing when I become stuck is just simply just taking a breath and really thinking about what it is you want. And, know, I, so I realized like, I didn't want to leave my current place of employment. I really liked this company. I really hope to retire with them. And so that current structure of the job wasn't serving me, you know, it just,

Savan Kong (01:04:13.888)

Mm-hmm.

Danielle Frank (01:04:30.439)

I took a breath and didn't make a rash decision. didn't take that other job because again, you know, I wanted to stay with this company. I didn't believe in the other brand, but I believed in myself and I believed in my, you know, the, the people I work with. And I had a candid discussion with my boss and we figured it out and it was great. So it was just kind of, you know, I think that's the most important thing is just not making a rash decision, giving yourself some room to breathe and to think about things strategically.

Savan Kong (01:04:54.348)

Mm-hmm.

Danielle Frank (01:05:00.087)

when we do anything, you know, rushed, oftentimes, yeah, it can lead to, it can lead to making, you know, potentially making the same mistake twice. And it could, it can also lead to you not extracting the lesson that you need to extract from it to take you and define you for the, for the future.

Savan Kong (01:05:20.471)

Yeah, yeah, I love that. Last question, Danielle, and these are one word questions. And I would love some explanation of why you chose these words after I ask you these questions. But for your time in life right now, what's the one word that terrifies you? What's the one word that scares you right now?

Danielle Frank (01:05:51.615)

failure.

Savan Kong (01:05:53.76)

Yeah, unpack that a little bit for me.

Danielle Frank (01:05:54.751)

And do you want to know? Yeah, that's failure. Because, um, well, or, well, I'd say, well, can I change it? was gonna say failure or, or unhappiness, but I'll say both because failure doesn't have to failure is just, um, when I, when I look inward, I, I really, um,

Savan Kong (01:06:06.272)

Yeah, yeah.

Danielle Frank (01:06:20.989)

I want to feel like I am a success, not necessarily in career or relationship, but I've lived a successful, fulfilling life. That's the most important thing to me. I'm very, you I think that's why I'm just so, you know, happy as a person is because I feel fulfilled. I feel like I'm doing the things that I want to do. I'm not holding myself back. So failure to me would be if I'm holding myself back on something, failure would be if I didn't bring this book to fruition.

Savan Kong (01:06:30.636)

Mm-hmm.

Danielle Frank (01:06:50.227)

But then I also say unhappiness because yeah, think, know, having seen, you know, being unhappy in the relationship or being unhappy in that career at that moment, it just realized it's no place to live. you know, that would, being unhappy at any element would scare the crap out of me.

Savan Kong (01:06:50.358)

Yeah.

Savan Kong (01:07:12.607)

Yeah, I agree. On the opposite end of that, what's the one word that brings you the most hope for the future?

Danielle Frank (01:07:27.167)

shouldn't say a new president. The one word. Okay, now back to the game. Sorry, people.

Savan Kong (01:07:36.586)

It's your interview my friend, you can say whatever word you want.

Danielle Frank (01:07:42.367)

The one word that gives me hope for the future is kindness, right? If we can start getting back to kindness and people. And, you know, that's one of the goals of writing my book is trying to have parents instill these, you know, good human behaviors at a young age, because it's we've lost so much kindness in this world. And if we just get back to that, mean, it's just it's I can't even look

Savan Kong (01:07:50.026)

Mmm.

Danielle Frank (01:08:11.039)

at the news anymore of just how awful we're being to each other. And, you know, there's nothing greater. I've traveled the world. I love traveling by myself too. And like, I've met people that I'm still friends with just, you know, sitting out having an aperitif somewhere and people invited me to dinner with them. And, you know, I'm still friends with them. It's like, there's nothing like just kindness in the world. And I know I always say that that's for me, the recipe for my happiness is

Savan Kong (01:08:13.032)

Yeah.

Savan Kong (01:08:23.945)

Wow.

Danielle Frank (01:08:39.923)

That makes me happy knowing that I'm a good person. I mean, if you cross me, trust me, you won't see the kind Danielle, but it makes me happy to be a good person and to be kind to other people. That brings me joy. That makes me feel fulfilled.

Savan Kong (01:08:43.091)

Yeah.

Savan Kong (01:08:55.838)

Right, Yeah, we definitely need more of that, both in the real world, but also online. It blows me away that kindness doesn't get as much publicity online or reactions, you know? And that's part of the reason why I started this podcast was to hopefully give people hope through these stories.

And it's hard, it's like an uphill battle to try to produce things that reflect kindness versus produce these fear-mongering, sensational headlines. But I also think it's important, so I really don't care what anybody else is producing out there.

Danielle Frank (01:09:35.293)

No, you're doing a great job. And that's why as a listener, we gravitate to podcasts, right? Because it's an earnest candid conversation about real people with real life discussions and things, and organic conversations. And so I think people are craving that more and more because everything is so artificial, people posting, best life ever. Of course we only post the good stuff, but...

Savan Kong (01:09:41.022)

Mm-hmm.

Savan Kong (01:09:45.503)

Yeah.

Savan Kong (01:10:00.776)

Mm-hmm.

Danielle Frank (01:10:01.801)

Well, know, podcasters, it's been a great arena to just have open candid conversations about the messy middle as much as the good.

Savan Kong (01:10:09.982)

Yeah, I absolutely agree with that. Well, Danielle, that wraps up our interview. I wanted to say I very much appreciated you coming on, telling me your story. It's an inspiration in so many ways. And I'm sure the listeners will absolutely love your book. It's called A Wine Lover's Guide to Parenting. You could find it on, I'm assuming Amazon.

Danielle Frank (01:10:36.189)

Yeah, Amazon and Barnes and Noble. And just for the listeners, it's written, it's not a hefty novel. It's written like a children's illustrated rhyming book. Definitely not made for kids. It rhymes. Every time I use wine terminology, it gets the wine definition. So you get a laugh. You learn about wine. At the back of the book, a basic understanding of how wine made. So it's really for anyone, not just parents or grandparents or aunts or uncles. It's for any wine lover or anybody that loves a good humor book.

Savan Kong (01:10:45.213)

There you go.

Savan Kong (01:11:05.777)

Love it, love it. And for anybody that wants to know more about Danielle and her journey or the book, we'll link it in the description and all the other places where you can click on links. But I wish you well, my friend. It's been an honor to have you on and I hope that the promotion of the book goes exceptionally well for you.

Danielle Frank (01:11:26.523)

thank you so much for having me your podcast. Your podcast is fantastic. It's reaching people and keep up the great work with what you're doing as well.

Savan Kong (01:11:34.269)

Thank you so much. We'll talk soon, my friend.

Danielle Frank (01:11:46.271)

down and it needs me to upload, right?

Danielle Frank (01:11:59.199)

99%.

Danielle Frank (01:13:12.703)

All right, buddy. This is 99%. How do I get this to 100 %?

Danielle Frank (01:14:09.791)

morning.

Danielle Frank (01:14:14.749)

Okay.