Aaron Brooks, Federal Bureau of Prisons Food Service Supervisor

Aaron Btooks (00:00)

one word, respect.

If

USP Victorville. I go to USP Victorville. I'm there. There's a guy. He's got like triple life. He works in the kitchen. He works in the he works in the butcher shop in the kitchen. I mean he has he has access to all the knives, all the blades, all the everything.

Savan Kong (00:09)

wow. Wow.

Right?

Aaron Btooks (00:17)

I can't walk in there and tell someone with triple life, hey dude, what the fuck did I just tell you to do?

Savan Kong (00:24)

Right, exactly. Not gonna go well. Yeah, not gonna go well.

Aaron Btooks (00:25)

How's he gonna respond to that?

You don't have nothing to lose.

Savan Kong (00:30)

Mm-hmm.

Aaron Btooks (00:31)

So it's a fine line of, I won't even say it's a fine line. It's just a matter of respect. Like, know, it's the same thing when you want your kids to do something. You can beat your kid, but they might be envious of you. They might be bitter. They might turn into the Melendez brothers versus just saying, hey, this needs to be done. And some people need to know the reason why it needs to be done. Not just because I said so.

Savan Kong (00:37)

Yeah.

Yeah, God, right?

Aaron Btooks (00:59)

But because there's studies that show, empirical studies that show that if this isn't done properly and if it's not cooked to this temperature, people have died in the past.

Savan Kong (01:12)

Yeah. Crazy.

Aaron Btooks (01:13)

And a lot

of these people who are doing a long time in jail, they cultivate friendships and they have mentorship programs in prison amongst the inmates, not amongst the staff, but the inmates are like trying to, this dude's got triple life. Society might think that he's going to be in jail trying to punk people and bully people and do all of these other things, but that's not the truth. You know, he's looking at these little young kids.

trying to mentor them and guide them and say, hey, don't do what I did. You still have a chance. I don't have a chance anymore. So when you see inmates who are trying to help and mentor, those are the ones you latch onto. It's kind of like, I'm assuming you had some friends when you worked where you worked at who didn't care.

Savan Kong (01:43)

Right.

Right?

Yeah.

Yep.

Yep. 100%.

Aaron Btooks (02:02)

And those

were the ones that I would move heaven and earth to stay away from. But then when you find the ones who actually care, who actually want to help people, who actually want to do the right thing, those are the ones you latch onto.

Savan Kong (02:14)

Yeah, for sure.

Aaron Btooks (02:16)

And those

are the ones that you promote. And those are the ones that be like, all right, so guess what? You're not my cook no more. Now you're going to be the advisor to food service. There's special details that you can do for inmates to be like, because this guy has gone above and beyond and has done everything that we've asked him to do. He's now gone from just being a cook to being someone who helps train.

someone who helps teaches, someone who does literally will do anything. And, you know, and now you, you're eligible for different bonuses. You're eligible for different things that the average MA doesn't get because you just showed a little initiative and you had some intrinsic motivation. You know, that's the hardest part is I'm a firm believer that every, every, every correctional officer should start at a high level institution.

Savan Kong (02:44)

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

Aaron Btooks (03:11)

because that's where you learn to talk to people. That's where you like, you can't use all that bravado and trying to punk somebody. This dude, don't care. He will kill you and what are they gonna do to him? He already got three life sentences.

Savan Kong (03:14)

Mm-hmm.

Yep.

Yep.

Aaron Btooks (03:30)

⁓ Yeah, I made it back bro, my girl she Her sister's got like some mental health issues and like fucking flipped out and They had like it's just like some her and her old man got into it my girl was just You know, it's sometimes people want to be too involved so I'll tell my girls like you need to come here because that

Savan Kong (03:31)

⁓ man. So you made it back okay?

Yeah, who doesn't?

Yeah.

Aaron Btooks (03:56)

They're together. They have a whole relationship. It's not your place to be like in their space. I get helping your sister because that's your sister, but they are both equally at fault as somebody looking from an outside in, both equally at fault. So you need to come on over here, take a step back because you're getting too emotionally involved and come enjoy the weekend. So went to the spa, out, bullshitted, just...

Savan Kong (03:59)

Okay.

Yep.

Yep.

Aaron Btooks (04:27)

You know, both a weekend, little mini reset for the weekend.

Savan Kong (04:33)

That's good, man. You gotta have those days, brother. Did she ⁓ figure it out? Like, y'all figured it out or what?

Aaron Btooks (04:36)

upward.

It wasn't nothing for me to figure out. My thing with her was like, hey, look, this is... They've been together 10 years.

Savan Kong (04:43)

Okay.

Mmm, I got you

Aaron Btooks (04:51)

So this shit

has been going on for a hot ass minute. This ain't the first time that this shit done happen. It ain't the second time. It ain't the third time. ain't the 10th the 20th or the 50th or the 60th or the 70th.

Savan Kong (04:55)

I got you. I got you.

Yeah, consistent.

Aaron Btooks (05:05)

And you know when somebody got an alcohol problem as a spouse, if you're not stopping them, you're enabling them.

Savan Kong (05:12)

Yep, for sure, for sure. Yep.

Aaron Btooks (05:14)

And it's that simple. So

if you can't say no and you can't put your foot down and you can't be the helper, the person who, like I want to see you do better so I'm going to stop. I'm going to stop drinking because I understand that when I drink, you drink.

Savan Kong (05:31)

Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup.

Aaron Btooks (05:32)

Or I'm not going to drink around you. Like when we together,

I'm not going to do it.

Savan Kong (05:39)

Yep. Man.

Aaron Btooks (05:40)

But you can't

say, and then be around them and next thing you know you're having a glass of wine. Because by the end of the night it's gonna be a fucking tequila, it's gonna be a fucking Jack and Coke.

Savan Kong (05:46)

Yeah, right.

Yeah,

Aaron Btooks (05:52)

at one o'clock in the morning somebody gonna get punched in the mouth for looking at looking at somebody's

Savan Kong (05:58)

It's like, yeah, I know the story. I know the story.

Aaron Btooks (06:01)

We

all know the story, Everybody got to see their friend, a coworker or relative. We all have that person.

Savan Kong (06:03)

Yeah.

Yeah, I feel you.

Aaron Btooks (06:11)

Don't know how to handle a liquor.

Savan Kong (06:13)

Damn dude. ⁓ Well fuck man, let's just transition into this. We'll kick it off. You feeling good?

Aaron Btooks (06:17)

The show.

Yeah, man, I feel great, bro. Wait, let me get a cup of water real quick.

Savan Kong (06:22)

All right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, do it, do it.

There you go, get the hydrate. You're gonna do this. This is gonna be like ⁓ this is gonna be like the Kevin Garnett fucking Paul Pierce podcast. You ever listen to that?

Aaron Btooks (06:38)

But no,

I'm not even really big on podcast bro. I was just like when tiffany hit me up and told me like I Was it kevin maybe I did see one of theirs where the ⁓ Was it paul pierce? Yeah, paul pierce in la and he lost a bet that he had to walk from like englewood to the staple center some crazy shit Yeah, i've definitely seen yeah, i've seen one of those

Savan Kong (06:42)

It's so funny, bro

You

⁓

god, that's just hilarious bro. It ain't gonna be at that level, but we hoping to get close to it man, at least with the energy. Alright, brother, let's kick it off. Alright, welcome to the first episode of Work Unscripted. My name's Savan and today I've got my friend Aaron Brooks. Aaron, what's up? How you doing, brother?

Aaron Btooks (07:08)

That was all good.

Do a wonderful yourself.

Savan Kong (07:25)

Man, I'm doing amazing bro. So, you know, this is the first episode and no pressure whatsoever of being great, right? But I want to kick it off by telling some crazy stories, especially of the stuff you're doing now. But before we get to the craziness, man, tell the people who you are. Where were you born? Where'd you grow up?

Aaron Btooks (07:34)

Alright.

⁓ Born in Los Angeles, Marla King Hospital and raised between North Carolina, Charlotte, North Carolina, Blackswab, North Carolina and LA. 10 year Navy event. Did like 10 years in the military, ⁓ six on submarines, four as in foreign law enforcement working patrol. ⁓ After that, I transitioned from the Navy to the Department of Justice, Federal Bureau of Prisons.

And I'm coming up on my 20 year mark. September 22nd is my retirement date. So I'll have 30 years of combined government service and hopefully a nice little pension sale offer to the the sunset with.

Savan Kong (08:29)

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah dude that sounds amazing bro. ⁓ What part of LA were you born? I know people said they're from LA man. I lived in SoCal for a while and people claim Irvine as LA which we know Orange County is not LA.

Aaron Btooks (08:41)

Okay.

Irvine is Orange County, that part. So ⁓

I was actually born in Compton. So Martin Luther King Hospital is actually in Wilmington, California. So Wilmington is literally between Watts. You have Watts, Wilmington, and then Compton. So it's like smack dab in the middle. But I was raised in South Central LA, like 92nd and Hickory, or 92nd and Hickory and then ⁓ over by Edison Junior High School.

Savan Kong (08:49)

Okay?

Okay. Okay. Okay.

Aaron Btooks (09:12)

That was a close to school to us.

Savan Kong (09:15)

That's crazy, man. So so so how do you make it out to the to East Coast like how long do you live in LA before you moved out?

Aaron Btooks (09:22)

So it was just a back and forth thing. Like it wasn't like a, like anytime I was out of school, I was in North Carolina because that's what my grandparents were. That's where all my, my sister, well, my one sister, three of my other brothers lived out there. So it was more of a summertime, winter time, out of school type deal. And then obviously growing up or not growing up, but after I got married and had kids, I had went to Georgia.

So then that put me four hours from the house. So then my grandmother was still alive back then, so it was just back and forth.

Savan Kong (09:55)

Dang, that's crazy. What's the biggest difference between North Carolina and LA in your head? Like if you had to pinpoint some of the top five biggest differences, what would they be?

Aaron Btooks (10:08)

Honestly, I can tell you one thing that's the difference between LA and I won't even say to North Carolina, I would just say to South. Manners.

Savan Kong (10:18)

Okay.

Ooh. Ooh, okay. Yep.

Aaron Btooks (10:22)

People being polite and you can take that

and go 30 different ways with it. The thing about the West Coast is, you know, like when I go home and I call and the interesting part is I called North Carolina home because I feel more home in North Carolina than I do in LA. When I go home, everybody is polite. If we were walking down the street, people would actually speak to you. Like it's not like LA.

Savan Kong (10:40)

wow.

Aaron Btooks (10:49)

Like if I'm walking somewhere in LA and I speak to somebody, they're looking at me like, why is this guy talking to me? What does he want? There's an ulterior motive or you're trying to get something or do something to him. And I think that whole bravado, it resonates on the West Coast because people start to take that on as who they are. That's not who you are. It costs you nothing to...

Savan Kong (10:54)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yep.

Aaron Btooks (11:18)

return a wave, a nod, a hi, a hello. Down south, that's a normal thing. And if you don't do it, they'll look at you like you're crazy. You get to the West Coast.

Savan Kong (11:28)

Yeah,

it's nuts dude. I spent some time in Augusta for work. I probably spent about half a year there. working in the DOD, you pick up a lot of the sirs and mams, Like even at work, you know? And on the West Coast, I just remember telling this lady, ⁓ thank you ma'am or something, and she got like really offended because she thought I was calling her old. And I was just like,

Aaron Btooks (11:44)

it.

Savan Kong (11:57)

Man, this is sort of weird. It's very different, man.

Aaron Btooks (11:59)

So the interesting

thing now is like with the whole LGBTQ movement and not to like get off topic, but when you said that, yes ma'am and yes sir, so that's the way my kids were raised. And that's the way I was raised. So when I see somebody and I look at them and they look.

Savan Kong (12:10)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Aaron Btooks (12:17)

think the proper word is presenting as male or female or whatever. And I say, yes, ma'am. Those are my Southern roots and what my parents taught me specifically growing up in a church. If it's a man or somebody, it's yes or no, ma'am or sir. And people nowadays, when I was living in Portland, I worked for the Timbers. And there's a young lady who works for the Timbers.

Savan Kong (12:20)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yep. Yep.

Mm-hmm.

Aaron Btooks (12:45)

She's not young, she's much older than me, but she is transitioning. But she presents as female. So I said, she asked me to do something. I was like, not a problem, ma'am. Have a good day. And I left, went to go do whatever I was doing. And at end of the shift, like my boss comes to me and was like, hey, so and so said that you called her ma'am and wants to file a complaint against you.

Savan Kong (12:50)

Mm.

Yeah.

Mmm.

Aaron Btooks (13:10)

Luckily, my boss is from Texas, is from Houston. So he understood that I was saying, and he was like, we got to try to get more into just say yes or no. You don't have to say ma'am or sir because then you don't have to worry about anyone being offended. For me, it wasn't about being offended.

Savan Kong (13:14)

Yeah.

Yeah, when in actuality you're just

showing you're showing them respect right like like but by having that designation it's it's a sign of respect for the other person and ⁓ Yeah, it's crazy. It's crazy like having to do I had talked to another guest about code switching and she was talking about you know her being ⁓ with her african roots and trying to code switch and like certain settings and and But for you man, you had to do that

Aaron Btooks (13:32)

Correct.

Savan Kong (13:56)

the time right like every year going back and forth was that a struggle like growing up or what? ⁓

Aaron Btooks (14:01)

But it was just a normal thing. just, I,

it was, it was born and raised, like being born and raised in that, you know, cause I'm telling you, like if, I was at my grandmother's house and bless her soul, Lula Brooks would just smack you in face. If you were somewhere in, and we were, we spent a lot of time around older folks, it wasn't a thing of a yeah, yeah, it wasn't even in the vocabulary. Like I didn't say yeah, until I went into military.

Savan Kong (14:17)

Yes. Yep.

Yeah.

Aaron Btooks (14:30)

Like,

yeah, yeah, what? I think like it's specifically around adults. Now, if you're outside with your with your friends, your your peers, you know, kids and y'all want to, yeah, and know all day, go for it. But the moment some an adult came around, it was a wrap. Like literally, like, what's the comedian? ⁓ Bernie Mac, you say when he's smacking the back of the head, make your teeth chatter like that was real.

Savan Kong (14:35)

Right.

Yep.

Yep.

It's a wrap.

yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. huh.

That was real for sure. Holy smokes, man. How did you get into the Navy? Was that right after high school or did you take some time in between there?

Aaron Btooks (15:01)

It was.

So I left right after high school. I didn't know what I wanted to do. Like I was just like, my brother was a colonel in the Air Force and my other brother's a master, he's a gunnery sergeant in the Marine Corps. And then I got other brother who was in the Marine Corps and then like my aunt worked for the secret service. So I knew that I was going the government route. I just didn't know how.

Savan Kong (15:11)

Okay. Yeah.

Okay.

So they had done

things too. It wasn't just like, you know, their grunts, like these are high officials too, right? Like your family. Yeah. Right. Right.

Aaron Btooks (15:36)

Yeah, like I'm like the bastard child at the time with no degree. Everybody else got a degree. You know, my mom's a PA, dad's a mechanic. My sister's

got her her bachelor's in ⁓ child psychology. Like my brother's in mathematics. Like every I'm the black sheep. So I'm like, all right, you know what? I'm gonna go to the Navy. Because I just didn't know what I want to do. And my dad was like, don't go somewhere and waste your time or your money or someone else's time or money, because you don't know what you want to do.

Savan Kong (16:05)

Yep.

Aaron Btooks (16:06)

So I wind

Savan Kong (16:06)

Yep.

Aaron Btooks (16:07)

up going into the Navy and I didn't know what I wanted to do. And so my dad told me, go do something that you can do. The computers will never be able to take over.

Savan Kong (16:21)

⁓ your dad already thought about this many, many years ago. Woof, woof, I like that. All right, so what was your mentality then, like going into it?

Aaron Btooks (16:24)

Yeah, Pops got good game.

⁓ I was a kid. I was a kid. Like literally I was just, I was a kid going in, trying to be an adult, trying to put that brave face on leaving home for the first time. Like, and when I say leaving home, I'm not talking about going to auntie's house around the corner. I'm talking about I, on my dad's birthday, I left for bootcamp and I remember my family, we, you know, we had like a dinner at the Sizzlers back when Sizzlers was still open. Old school.

Savan Kong (16:50)

All right.

Yes, ⁓

Aaron Btooks (17:02)

The back door says it still open

and my family was there and I was like, all right, like this is it. And my grandmother, my mom's mom, she lived in Los Angeles. She came out and she just told me, she was like, don't forget your religion. That's, know, she was like, don't forget what you, your principles. Don't forget what you were founded on. Don't forget what we've instilled in you. And that was it. ⁓ Went to boot camp and I was off to the races.

Savan Kong (17:21)

Hmm.

Dang.

Tell me the story of how you got your ass in submarines. How did you eventually get in there? Because you don't look like a small guy and there's not a lot of room in the submarines.

Aaron Btooks (17:41)

I'm not.

So it was a joke. I went to cook school first because my dad was like, go be a cook or go do something like a barber, a cook, a signalman, something that like computers can't take over. So I went to a school, I went to bootcamp in Chicago, left Chicago, ⁓ went to a school, which is like your basic school for culinary arts. Back then it was called mess management specialist. That was in San Diego. And it was great because my parents lived in Riverside.

Savan Kong (17:49)

Okay.

Aaron Btooks (18:12)

And San Diego is like an hour and a half from Riverside. So it was wonderful. And the guy comes in, we're about to graduate. And he like took the top 10 % of the class and was like, you guys can choose wherever you want to go to, but I have a special guy here who wants to talk to you. And I was like, all right. So me and another guy were in there and dude was like, who wants to make a lot of money? It's like, raise your hand. Who likes adventure?

Savan Kong (18:13)

Mm-hmm.

Aaron Btooks (18:39)

You know, keep your, you know, your hands up, right? Your hand never comes down. And he's like, all right, you two guys come with me. So we take this aptitude test. We both passed the test and he was like, all right, sign right here. And this is something that a lot of people don't understand about the government. Specifically when you're young, when somebody tells you to sign something, you might want to read it before you sign it.

Savan Kong (18:42)

Yeah. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, especially if it's a multi-year thing.

Aaron Btooks (19:10)

A multi-year, it's like, I had old Gunny Sergeant when I was, when I worked with the Marines, he used to say, it will behoove you to read and understand what's going on. So me and my buddy, signed it. And then about two weeks later, I think we went before like an oral board, passed the oral board and was like, all right, you guys are going to ⁓ Groton, Connecticut. And I was like, Groton, Connecticut? What the hell is Groton,

Savan Kong (19:33)

I don't

even know where that is bro. I don't even know where that is

Aaron Btooks (19:38)

It's like three hours from New York City. You know what Rhode Island is? Like Providence, Rhode Island? Okay, so it's like, I want to say it's like an hour and a half from Providence. South. Get there and it is a Navy enlisted submarine school. And I was just like, wait, this shit was supposed to be a joke, bro. Like we wasn't, I,

Savan Kong (19:43)

Okay. I do. Yeah, my sister used to live in Connecticut. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Hahahaha

Aaron Btooks (20:05)

I didn't really want

to decide that. And I got there was the middle of winter time in Connecticut. I was cold. My mom called my mom. She like FedEx me like a true North jacket, some Timberland boots, like still a kid, bro. Still a kid, like 18 years old.

Savan Kong (20:10)

Good lord.

Yeah, socks. Yeah. And you had

been in hot ass weather your whole life.

Aaron Btooks (20:27)

I've been in the humidity of North Carolina and then just the heat of California. So like, yes, I was, it was a culture shock and it was a, a weather, a weather shock to the body.

Savan Kong (20:30)

Yeah? Yep.

Damn, that's crazy. Before we dive a little bit deeper into the submarine stories, how did you get into cooking? Were you a good cook as a kid? Were you one of those kids that spent time in the kitchen?

Aaron Btooks (20:51)

Yeah,

I spent more time in the kitchen I spent outside and all my aunt, all my aunts can cook. And when I say cook, I mean to like burn the kitchen up like they like my aunt, Cherry, she's a master baker. My aunt, Georgia used to make macaroni and cheese like nobody's business. My dad is like barbecuing. Like I learned how to barbecue just watching my dad just trying to go out there and get

Savan Kong (20:56)

⁓ really?

Okay.

Wow.

Right, right?

Wow.

Aaron Btooks (21:21)

It literally was me trying to go outside and get like the little scrap pizza meat. Like, you know, you feed the dog. And I was just like, this is amazing. Like there's no fire in there, but it's cooking. And then. I mean, once I started driving around the world. It was just, you know, my first duty station was in Hawaii and I got the chance to cook with Sam Choi. And then they sent me to yeah, it was.

Savan Kong (21:27)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

⁓ dang.

Aaron Btooks (21:51)

It was crazy. the Navy was really good to me. All of, like I can honestly say 90 % of my life experience was rooted in the bases of the Navy, specifically on South America. Like it was.

Savan Kong (21:57)

Yeah.

Wow.

That's crazy,

man.

Aaron Btooks (22:11)

It was a time though.

Savan Kong (22:12)

Uh,

oh yeah, it sounds like it. It sounds like it. mean like the thing about cooking is right now it's blowing up, right? Like with the food channel and all these YouTube channels and everybody's trying to be a celebrity cookin' but back in the day, you probably had maybe one or two channels that had cooking on it. Were you thinking, hey, I wanna be a cook when I grew up? Right.

Aaron Btooks (22:33)

Yeah, but that was like on cable that you had to pay for. That wasn't like regular,

like we had, what's her baby's name? The French lady. She had the French accent. I can't even think of her name. ⁓

Julia Childs. So when I was a little kid, me and my aunt would be sitting in her and my aunt got home and garden magazine and in home and garden magazine, there's a section, like a foodie section. And we would watch Julia Childs cook and then we would go into the kitchen and cook. And everybody always thought that I was going to my aunt's house because I wanted to hang out with my uncle Bobby, who he was well off. He had some money.

Savan Kong (22:47)

Yeah, I that movie. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Aaron Btooks (23:13)

I was going over there because my aunt had a wolf freaking oven in her house. So we would just cook all the time. like, I love cooking. I won't sit here and lie to you. Like it's one of those things it's been my bread and butter pretty much my entire life.

Savan Kong (23:18)

stove? ⁓

Yeah.

Wow.

Yeah,

yeah, that's crazy, man. That's crazy. So tell me, so, so, you know, after you enlist, you are now traveling the world with the Navy, you're in the submarine, what, what is a typical day like for you while you were moving around with the Navy? Why you were enlisted? Like, what is a typical day look like for you? What did it look like?

Aaron Btooks (23:57)

So a regular day for me, I was a night baker. So my job entailed cooking. ⁓ I would wake up around 5.30 PM, right when dinner was being served. ⁓ The guy in there serving dinner would come in. We'd do a walk through, make sure the place was clean. And the first thing I would start was making, if I needed to make a hamburger,

Savan Kong (24:01)

Okay.

Yeah.

Aaron Btooks (24:25)

buns, hot dog buns, cookies, cakes, all the things to sustain the crew for the entirety of the next day. So literally, so let's just go and say we a hamburger ⁓ day. So I would need to make like 300 hamburger buns along with white bread for breakfast, white bread and wheat bread for breakfast. And then

Savan Kong (24:41)

Yep.

Yep. Yep.

Aaron Btooks (24:51)

Once that once I got started plus desserts. So whatever the dessert was So if it was a sheet cake, I would need to make like two or three sheet cakes then make icing ice the cakes put them away if it was cookies typically I would make probably about 500 cookies because each person gets to Chocolate chip cookies, but the truth of the matter is who's only eating two chocolate chip cookies when they're but you make like 500 of them and then you would um that I would

Savan Kong (25:12)

Yep, right, right. Yep.

Aaron Btooks (25:18)

do a meal that's called Mid-Rats. So on a submarine, it runs 24 hours a day. So there's no meal at midnight. Like there's no in regular society, there's no midnight meal. So for us, we would do a meal that's called Mid-Rats. And it was typically like leftovers from dinner and like some ravioli or some ⁓ beanie weenies or

Savan Kong (25:27)

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Aaron Btooks (25:46)

whatever extra there was some chicken nuggets just something for the guys coming off watch to get something in their stomach so they can go to sleep or the guys who are going on watch to get something in their stomach so they can go to sleep then the next day ⁓ obviously once all that's done then breakfast would start and breakfast started around five o'clock so then I would cook breakfast like eggs to order like basically restaurant style breakfast

Savan Kong (25:53)

to eat.

Right.

Right, right, right.

Aaron Btooks (26:15)

And after that, go take a shower, go to sleep and try to get as much sleep as possible and start over the next day.

Savan Kong (26:15)

Mm-hmm.

Dang.

That's crazy, was, Aaron, was a ⁓ memorable crazy day for you? Because I would imagine, man, if the food runs out or if you butcher a meal or something goes bad, everything's gone bad, right? Like that's sort of like the cornerstone of the submarine functioning is the fuel that people take in. What, tell me a story about like a horrible disaster that happened to you that you can remember.

Aaron Btooks (26:41)

Correct.

So when submarines are riding, and these, things take time to figure out. You don't know these things and no one tells you. It's like the trial by fire initiation. Like you started a podcast, a lot of people didn't tell you, a lot of stuff like downfalls that are gonna be sent you as a podcaster. So what I didn't know was, and what no one had told me is that when,

Savan Kong (26:57)

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Aaron Btooks (27:18)

When a submarine is moving forward and they're moving forward, the way that the submarine is tilted, so say this is your submarine, the submarine's gonna be tilted a little bit to the left.

Savan Kong (27:23)

Okay.

Okay?

Okay. Okay.

Aaron Btooks (27:36)

or tilt it little bit to the right because the propeller is spinning clockwise so the boat's gonna have a little lean to it. So knowing that when you're in port when you put your cake in the oven your cake's gonna go in the oven it's gonna sit flat just like this. So no matter how high you fill it in that pan it's gonna stay inside that pan.

Savan Kong (27:40)

spinning. Yeah, okay.

Right.

Uh-huh.

Aaron Btooks (28:05)

When you're on the submarine and you're underway or you're off the sea, your cake does want these little numbers.

Savan Kong (28:09)

Yeah.

Aaron Btooks (28:12)

So I got one, two, three, four, five, six chocolate cakes in the oven and we're going. I put them in there, I'm like, all right, they look good. Slam the door. And about five minutes later, this thick black smoke starts coming out of the oven.

Savan Kong (28:12)

That's crazy.

Yep. Yep.

In the submarine. Right.

Aaron Btooks (28:36)

in the submarine and

now we're like what the hell is going on so I open the ovens and the ovens are convection ovens so it's like they're electrical ovens and but there's a big-ass fan that's just whipping air through them so they cook evenly so as soon as I open that door the fan blows all the fucking smoke out excuse my language blows all the smoke out

Savan Kong (28:43)

Right.

Right. Right.

Noooo

Aaron Btooks (29:05)

And then somebody's like, there's a fire in the kitchen.

Savan Kong (29:05)

Yeah.

my God.

Aaron Btooks (29:09)

So as soon as somebody says there's a fire on the submarine, there are like strict protocols that need to happen, certain things happen. We come up to the prescribed depth because we were out on, we were actually on a mission. And you got 19 year old dumb ass errands standing there like.

Savan Kong (29:14)

Yep. Yep.

Oh man. Oh man.

What's going

on?

Aaron Btooks (29:35)

And at this point, like all my bosses are like the supply officers there, my chiefs there, my first class is there, my second sir. I think I was an E3 at the time. And it was just so now all the stuff that I made, all the all these cakes, the trash. So now I got to. Clean all of the cake out of the oven, it's been caked on and burnt, so now the entire forward compartment smells like burnt chocolate cake. And now.

Savan Kong (29:36)

Ugh.

Yeah.

my God.

Aaron Btooks (30:04)

but I still gotta remake these cakes. Now it's been like two hours since these cakes should have been made because I should have made them as soon as I got in there. But I wanna say it was like pizza night or something. No, it was pizza night. So I had to make a whole bunch of pizza crust for the crew before I started my actual job. And it was a horrific, it was very horrific. people, the one thing I can tell you about Sub Mariners,

Savan Kong (30:30)

my God.

Aaron Btooks (30:34)

Cause we will ride, we'll ride your ass until the sun, until the sun goes up, comes back down. And if you show any inkling of weakness, just the slightest fit. If I, if it's like opening a door, it's like when there's a windy, a windy day outside, imagine the wind's blowing a hundred mile an hour and you, you want to peep outside. So you open your door up just a little bit. That's all it takes. And once that, once that door is open, you ain't getting it closed. So.

Savan Kong (30:49)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, he was blasted by that breeze.

⁓

man.

Aaron Btooks (31:04)

That was another lesson I had to learn of having tough skin. I would say not caring, but if they didn't care about you, no one was anything to you. It's that old adage, they talk to you because they actually care.

Savan Kong (31:19)

Yeah, nobody would say anything.

Yeah.

Yeah, for sure, for sure. Man, how did you fix the baking cake issue then? Did you just not fill it up as high or what? Like how do you fix that?

Aaron Btooks (31:34)

So you don't fill it up as high, number one. And number two, you find something that won't burn. So then you have like these burnless ⁓ heat resistant hot pads. So put the hot pad in on the right hand side of the oven. Put your, so it's like this. So if you take it like this little cap and you sit it on there, now the right side is higher than the left side. Simple fix. And the cake only takes 30 minutes to bake.

Savan Kong (31:47)

Okay.

Okay.

I got you, I got you.

Aaron Btooks (32:02)

So in 30 minutes, it's not enough time for that hot pad to burn up.

Savan Kong (32:07)

Right? Man, this is like all the things they don't teach you in culinary school probably, right? It's like all this shit you gotta learn on the fly.

Aaron Btooks (32:14)

100%. You've got to learn it on the fly.

Savan Kong (32:16)

Dang, okay. So how do you teach the next generation of cooks that are cooking in a submarine? Like, do you guys have some sort of mentor intern program? Or how do you make sure the next series of cooks come in and know what the fuck they're doing?

Aaron Btooks (32:34)

Honestly, it's just on the job training and caring. Once you show me by your actions, know, let it say respect is earned, not given. So once you show me by your actions that you actually care and you actually want to be here and you're actually going to pay attention and I will like, I'm, will pour into you. Like I was having a conversation yesterday with one of the guys in my job.

Savan Kong (32:37)

Okay. Okay.

Absolutely.

Aaron Btooks (33:01)

I said, I will teach you everything that I can potentially teach you before I retire. Because once I retire, I understand it. The likelihood of me being in food service is pretty nil. Like my next step in life is to go to do private security. So, but it's the same thing on a submarine. You say, hey, I will teach you everything you want to learn as long as you are proactive and responsive to what I'm telling you.

Savan Kong (33:06)

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Aaron Btooks (33:30)

or the information that I'm providing you.

Savan Kong (33:31)

So walk me through then how you ended up at your job now at the DOJ being a cook there. So you retired from the Navy after 10 years? Okay.

Aaron Btooks (33:42)

No, so I just got out. I was done. said

I was like, I'm done. So I went. ⁓ My daughter was born November the 11th of November 14, sorry, 2001, right after 9 11. And at the time I was working in law enforcement and they were like, hey, we got good news. We got some bad news. It's time for you to reenlist. If you reenlist, you're going to you're going to Iraq or Bahrain or you're going back to Bahrain because I had already been to Bahrain once. If you reenlist, you're going back to Bahrain.

Savan Kong (33:55)

Okay. Okay.

Mm.

Yep. Yep. Right.

Aaron Btooks (34:13)

And I'm sitting there like, bro, I got a freaking kid at the house. And my ex-wife was like, you know, we sat down and kudos to her for understanding the assignment. She said, what is $200,000 at the time? Because when I went in, it was $200,000, the death burial benefit for the VA. What is $200,000 by a newborn baby? She ain't got her dad. She ain't got...

Savan Kong (34:17)

Yeah.

not much.

Aaron Btooks (34:41)

no memory of you. won't like you. You never even existed. You got me pregnant and you went and died. And so I got out and I worked at a Loomis Fargo in San Diego. We moved from Connecticut to San Diego and I worked at Loomis Fargo and one of the guys at Loomis Fargo was like, hey Brooks, I know you were in the military, but the Bureau of Prisons is hiring. Like I said, all right, sweet. What do need to do?

He goes, take your resume or take your DD 214 to him.

I was like, so I can just walk in with my DD214, they'll give me a job? He goes, yeah. So I walked in with my DD214, handed it to a...

to the HR lady, I can't remember her name, but I can see her face. And she goes, all right, come in here, take this test real quick. So they played a video and it was like a scenario where you had to put things in chronological order.

Savan Kong (35:39)

Okay? Okay.

Aaron Btooks (35:40)

Literally in a written report. So they showed you a video and it's like, all right, chronologically, tell us what happened in that video.

So now you have to remember what happened. Functuation grammar, spelling. Like at the time it was, you know, a pretty comprehensive test because it made you think they got to see if you could spell, they got to see if you could read, they got to see if you were able to ⁓ retriculate what happened in that situation. And I was like, so I did it.

And they were like, all right, we'll hook you up next week. And the week following, they called me and said, hey, can you come in for a drug test? So I've never been a fan of drugs, so that was easy. Went and took that. And then they asked me if I could come back the following week for oral board with Captain Wells, Lieutenant Butchran, and the chief of psychology, Dr. Banks. I remember him.

Savan Kong (36:23)

Mm-hmm.

Yep. Yep.

You remember all their names. Wow.

Aaron Btooks (36:44)

I walked in there and they start asking me a bunch of questions that I had no earthly clue. And I just kept saying the same thing. I will revert back to policy. ⁓ I will revert back to policy. And they were like, all right, we'll call you. And something like now takes upwards of a year. Like I want to say I had it done in maybe three months.

Savan Kong (36:52)

Yeah. Yeah. That's smart. That's smart.

Mm-hmm.

That's fast, man. That's fast.

Aaron Btooks (37:12)

Yeah,

it was. But I think it was a different time too. It wasn't like now where everything's online. You gotta wait and it's gotta go through Grand Prairie, Texas. Back then, they could hire on the spot at the institution level.

Savan Kong (37:28)

Yeah, that's crazy, man. So you got, you went, you applied. Did you know what to expect? Like, did you ask anybody, hey, like, what's up with this job?

Aaron Btooks (37:38)

No. So the only thing I knew, like working in prisons, is that, like, I got a couple of cousins who, ⁓ who reside at the Gray Bar Motel, as my grandmother likes to affectionately call it. So I'd heard stories my entire life about, ⁓ prison. And there were some, ⁓ neighbors of my, my mom, of my parents, where they live in California now.

Savan Kong (37:50)

Okay, okay.

Aaron Btooks (38:06)

there are some neighbors who are associated with a very popular Hispanic prison gang. And these were dudes that I hung out with all the time. when I was like high school kid, elementary, junior high and high school, I was always at their house. So it wasn't like a thing of me being nervous or me being scared because it's like, bro, like I done hung out with these dudes. Like I done hung out with my cousins. Like these are high ranking people in...

Savan Kong (38:22)

Right.

Aaron Btooks (38:36)

and their associated organizations. So it wasn't like a really big thing. it wasn't, I will tell you, it was scary when you get, when you're locked in, like that's the only scary part. When somebody tells you you're going into this housing unit and we're going to lock the door behind you, you know, it makes you use your people skills. It makes you, you know, that's yes, sir. And no, no, sir. Yes, ma'am. And no, ma'am.

Savan Kong (38:41)

Right? Right?

Mm-hmm.

Aaron Btooks (39:05)

All those things kick in where you start, this guy's got life, he don't give a shit what happens to you. He don't care whether or not you go home. You know? Yeah, you're big, sweet, he's bigger.

Savan Kong (39:11)

Yeah, ⁓ absolutely. Absolutely.

Yep. Or crazier. Or faster. Or whatever. Yeah. For sure.

Aaron Btooks (39:21)

And or crazier, stronger,

because all they do is work out. And then you got, you know, like ⁓ one dude. Great. I think my first unit that I was on, it was me and ⁓ another guy's name was Pierre. He's a lieutenant in LA now. And he we went on this unit and it was, I want to say it was the eighth floor and it was two officers and there was 189 inmates.

Savan Kong (39:39)

Mhm.

Wow. Holy shit.

Aaron Btooks (39:51)

So what difference does

it make how big you are? What difference does it make how fast you are? What difference does it make how, you know, karate? That's sweet, bro. This ain't Bruce, ain't Enter the Dragon. They're not standing around in a circle waiting for you to, you know what mean? Individually, when they move, they move as a unit. And if they want you, they're gonna get you.

Savan Kong (39:54)

Right.

Right?

Yeah, Saint Hain the Dragon. Right. Yep.

Right,

Dang. Tell me, break down a typical day for me at work for you. What does that look like?

Aaron Btooks (40:21)

So typical day now would be me going ⁓ into, like inside the prison. Like I'll get there around 10 o'clock and, 10 a.m., 10 a.m. So the shifts are broken down into eight hour shifts. So they have the 4.30 to 12.30 and then you have a little overlap. So you have it 10 o'clock to 6 p.m. So you have the, I come in.

Savan Kong (40:30)

Okay, so sort of late then, huh? Like, I thought you started early. Okay, okay.

Okay.

Okay.

Aaron Btooks (40:48)

And typically I try to make sure all my stuff is prepped the day before or several days before because I just don't like coming in and not being ready. So I get there at 10 o'clock, get in.

Savan Kong (40:52)

Okay.

Right.

Aaron Btooks (41:01)

go to control, give them my chits. Chits is this little circular thing, it just has your name on it. And it just says like, it says A. Brooks, and I give them four chits. He gives me some pepper spray, a set of keys to all the doors that I'm allowed to move in and out of, a radio with a body alarm, so basically a duress alarm, and then... ⁓

OC spray cuffs, radio, keys. So those four things. that's what those typically the stuff that I get. And I come in and after lunch, my guys come and we start cooking dinner. So we just, know, ⁓ trying to think what was the last meal that I cooked? Last meal we cook was a

Savan Kong (41:30)

Okay.

Aaron Btooks (41:47)

roast beef, mashed potatoes.

Savan Kong (41:49)

dang.

Wow. That's pretty freaking nice, man. How big's your team? Like, what does the team look like typically?

Aaron Btooks (41:55)

So typically, it depends on where you are. If you're inside the FCI, you have a team of about 30 people working for you, 30 MAs.

Savan Kong (42:02)

Okay, is

FCI?

Aaron Btooks (42:04)

FCI is a federal correctional institution. So that's where I work. I work at FCI Herlong. So the federal correctional institution at Herlong. Herlong, California. You know, my guys come in and they just get to work. So Saturday, Friday, Friday, when I came to work, we grabbed all the roast beef, we seasoned it up, you know, and your job is to, my title is a cook supervisor.

Savan Kong (42:07)

Okay.

Okay.

Aaron Btooks (42:30)

So my job is to cook and supervise and that's it. Teach these guys how to cook so when they get out, they have a viable skill so they don't reoffend. And that's the way I look at it. There are people out there who don't look at it that way. There are people who are just like, you you're just a monkey. Any monkey can do this job. But for me, it's like, hey, if I'm putting my name on this meal, I'm gonna put this meal out with pride and professionalism. And people are like, well, you're in jail. No, I'm at a restaurant.

Savan Kong (42:56)

Right.

Aaron Btooks (43:01)

Because to the inmates, it's just the only place to eat. The only restaurant in town, right? Like, where else, like, do you have an option?

Savan Kong (43:01)

Mm-hmm. ⁓ absolutely. Yep. Yep. ⁓

How do people apply to get to be a part of your team? What does that look like?

Aaron Btooks (43:16)

So you might, I like to do the referral system and I like the referral system because it's kind of, you ever seen that movie Harlem Nights?

Savan Kong (43:21)

Okay.

yeah, yeah, for sure.

Aaron Btooks (43:28)

So you remember that

scene when Bugsy Calhoun broke that dude's hand because the one guy got caught stealing? So I kind of operate like Bugsy Calhoun. ⁓

Savan Kong (43:37)

Yup.

I thought you

were gonna talk about the when he shot off his pinky toe. Wasn't that scene? Was that Harlem Nights? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Aaron Btooks (43:46)

yeah, that was probably nice to see when he shut off Don De Riz Quikato. So for me,

that was hilarious. So for me, like to, I like to give people word of mouth. Like I like to be like, Hey, my buddy, he doesn't have no family. He ain't got nobody to bring up to give him money. He's just looking forward, you know. And for me, typically those are the guys that work the hardest because if you don't have no money.

Savan Kong (43:54)

Yep.

Okay.

Aaron Btooks (44:13)

and don't have nobody sending you anything, and you don't have no family trying to help support you while you're inside jail, you're going to do everything in your power to secure your spot.

Savan Kong (44:19)

Mm-hmm.

Exactly.

Aaron Btooks (44:25)

and keep your spot.

Savan Kong (44:27)

Yep.

Aaron Btooks (44:28)

And those are the guys typically that I find work the best. I don't want to do with all the money. Like when I was in Sheridan, Oregon, when I worked in Sheridan, Oregon, Demetrius Flannery, Big Meats, the dude from Power or BMF, he was there. Like I don't want Demetrius Flannery working for me. Cause Demetrius Flannery's a millionaire. Yeah, right? Like bro, look, he don't give a damn. He don't care what the food tastes like.

Savan Kong (44:41)

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He probably can't make mashed potatoes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Right.

Right.

Aaron Btooks (44:57)

Because

he don't have to eat it. He's got enough money to eat commissary. And, you know, I'm trying to think of the three years that I was there, maybe I've seen him six times actually come to the, come to the food service and eat. Because he had so much money that he could literally buy anything in commissary that he wanted. So he didn't need to come eat. So when you look at it from that perspective, I think Deion Sanders said, want that dog. You know, we want that. He got in a lot of trouble for saying that, right?

Savan Kong (45:16)

Right? Right.

Uh-huh.

Aaron Btooks (45:26)

He said he wanted that kid with no dad, whose mom lived in the projects, didn't have much, but was willing to work and to get it all. So not just in football, but in life that resonates.

Savan Kong (45:42)

Yeah,

for sure. So take me through that process. So you get a referral, somebody comes in, how do they get through the gauntlet of interviewing with you or how do you assess if they're gonna be a good candidate to be part of your team, to be part of this cooking staff?

Aaron Btooks (46:01)

So somebody comes in and they don't have no experience, the very first thing you're getting, you're getting a dish pit. You're going straight to the dish room. It's just, it's the bottom of the barrel. And I'm just going to assess you. And the ones that I love are the ones who are over in the dish pit washing dishes. But when they're not washing dishes, they're over by the pans where the kettles are, where the cooks are trying to see what's going on.

Savan Kong (46:04)

Uh-huh.

Mm. Right.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Aaron Btooks (46:30)

Some of them are trying to get scraps, like the little dog that we talked about when I was a little kid. I was just trying to get scraps from my dad to eat because it was barbecue and it tasted amazing. But some of them are, and you can see it, like you see the light bulb comes on when like, Hey Brooks, I put too much salt in this. How do I fix it? And it's like, okay, go grab some potatoes, quarter the potatoes up, throw the potatoes in there and let it sit there for like an hour. And the potatoes will literally absorb all the salt.

Savan Kong (46:30)

Right, right.

Yep. Yep.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Aaron Btooks (46:59)

And then you see the dude over in the disk room being like, man, I didn't know that. Is that, is that real? Does that really work? Like, yeah, it worked. Like, you know, come back in an hour and I'll show you that it works. So those are the ones like that, that guy who has that intrinsic motivation, he's not doing it because he wants to look good in front of people. He's not doing it because he wants the praise or the admiration. He's doing it because intrinsically, like, you know, like that self-esteem is driving him. And that's like, that's.

Savan Kong (47:09)

Wow.

Right.

Aaron Btooks (47:30)

kind of me, like I'm not doing things for praise. I don't need to go out and seek out admiration and praise from people. I do it because my dad told me, if you did it right the first time, you wouldn't have to do it again. And when you listen to that, you hear that over and over and over and over again. At some point, like the light bulb does come on. And it was like, man, had I done it right the first time, I wouldn't have to go back and do it again. So then you start taking pride in your work from an intrinsic level.

Savan Kong (47:37)

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Aaron Btooks (47:58)

Because do I want my dad to be happy? Yes. But at end of the day, I only want to do it one time and I want it to be done correctly so I don't have to do it again. And when I do that, 100%. It's kind of like my buddy Matt, this guy I lived next door to when I was little, he worked for CDCR, for California Department of Corrections. And he bought a BMW and it was like a little 320, whatever, 308, whatever.

Savan Kong (48:03)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, because it gets more expensive too. Every time you make that mistake it gets more and more expensive.

Right.

Yep.

Aaron Btooks (48:28)

And

I remember going over there one day and he was in his garage tinkering and I was like, bro, what are you doing? He goes, my spark plug, I need to change the spark plugs on my car. And I was like, okay, that's cool. It like, you mind if I just hang out and watch? He's like, yeah. So with that model BMW, the spark plugs and the gas line apparently were like very close together.

Savan Kong (48:56)

Right.

Aaron Btooks (48:56)

And a

common mistake that people who wanted to change their own spark plugs made is that they would break or damage the gas line. And sure as shit, you know, cause of combustion, those gas lines are going directly into the, into the head cylinder. So the spark from the spark plug sparks the gas inside the, which causes combustion, which causes a piston to shoot back down. Well, he tore up like four of them.

Savan Kong (49:04)

That's not a T.M.

Yep.

⁓ dang.

my god.

Aaron Btooks (49:23)

Now because you tore up four of them, now you got to pull the engine. So now you don't have a car. And I remember him being mad and making me leave, but it's like little lessons like that. It's like, make sure you're doing things correctly because the cost of it far outweighs what you actually think it is. And for me being in food service, the cost is death.

Savan Kong (49:26)

Yeah.

for sure.

Aaron Btooks (49:53)

The cost is someone dying. The cost is if I don't do this correctly, someone could die. If I don't cook these eggs to temp, someone can get salmonella poison. If I don't cook this chicken attempt, somebody could get botulism poison. If I see that this can is bulging or sucking, that means that there's some bacteria growing inside this can that could kill someone. So, you know, that sometimes that make

Savan Kong (50:05)

Right.

Yep. Yep.

Aaron Btooks (50:23)

Sometimes it's not about that intrinsic motivation or extrinsic motivation. Sometimes it's about just telling the guy straight up. You know, I understand that you like your chicken cooked this way, but you know, that chicken's not the temp. And if you serve that chicken, you could get sick and die. Or if you eat that chicken.

Savan Kong (50:40)

Yeah.

Yeah,

that's crazy, man. I want to get into a little bit about maybe the psychology of prisoners because you've been around the system long enough to know. But how do you get people who, at least from an outside looking in, you feel like they're at the bottom of this barrel, right? Like they've hit rock bottom. They're in prison because they did something. Very little hope of like something magical coming out of it.

how do you get people that have that mentality to start caring about a craft like cooking? Right? Cause like at some point they're probably inspired by you, which is why they'll work hard and learn how to cook and do those things. But like, how do you get people motivated to care enough when they're at a place like a prison?

Aaron Btooks (51:31)

Respect.

Savan Kong (51:32)

Yeah. Okay. Tell me more.

Aaron Btooks (51:33)

Literally,

one word, respect.

If

USP Victorville. I go to USP Victorville. I'm there. There's a guy. He's got like triple life. He works in the kitchen. He works in the he works in the butcher shop in the kitchen. I mean he has he has access to all the knives, all the blades, all the everything.

Savan Kong (51:45)

wow. Wow.

Right?

Aaron Btooks (51:53)

I can't walk in there and tell someone with triple life, hey dude, what the fuck did I just tell you to do?

Savan Kong (52:00)

Right, exactly. Not gonna go well. Yeah, not gonna go well.

Aaron Btooks (52:02)

How's he gonna respond to that?

You don't have nothing to lose.

Savan Kong (52:07)

Mm-hmm.

Aaron Btooks (52:08)

So it's a fine line of, I won't even say it's a fine line. It's just a matter of respect. Like, know, it's the same thing when you want your kids to do something. You can beat your kid, but they might be envious of you. They might be bitter. They might turn into the Melendez brothers versus just saying, hey, this needs to be done. And some people need to know the reason why it needs to be done. Not just because I said so.

Savan Kong (52:16)

Yeah.

Yeah, God, right?

Aaron Btooks (52:38)

But because there's studies that show, empirical studies that show that if this isn't done properly and if it's not cooked to this temperature, people have died in the past.

Savan Kong (52:51)

Yeah. Crazy.

Aaron Btooks (52:53)

And a lot

of these people who are doing a long time in jail, they're, they cultivate friendships and they have mentorship programs in prison amongst the inmates, not amongst the staff, but the inmates are like trying to, this dude's got triple life. Society might think that he's going to be in jail trying to punk people and bully people and do all of these other things, but that's not the truth. You know, he's looking at these little young kids.

trying to mentor them and guide them and say, hey, don't do what I did. You still have a chance. I don't have a chance anymore. So when you see inmates who are trying to help and mentor, those are the ones you latch onto. It's kind of like, I'm assuming you had some friends when you worked where you worked at who didn't care.

Savan Kong (53:24)

Right.

Right?

Yeah.

Yep.

Yep. 100%.

Aaron Btooks (53:45)

And those

were the ones that I would move heaven and earth to stay away from. But then when you find the ones who actually care, who actually want to help people, who actually want to do the right thing, those are the ones you latch onto.

Savan Kong (53:58)

Yeah, for sure.

Aaron Btooks (53:59)

And those

are the ones that you promote. And those are the ones that be like, all right, so guess what? You're not my cook no more. Now you're going to be the advisor to food service. There's special details that you can do for inmates to be like, because this guy has gone above and beyond and has done everything that we've asked him to do. He's now gone from just being a cook to being someone who helps train.

someone who helps teaches, someone who does literally will do anything. And, you know, and now you, you're eligible for different bonuses. You're eligible for different things that the average MA doesn't get because you just showed a little initiative and you had some intrinsic motivation. You know, that's the hardest part is I'm a firm believer that every, every, every correctional officer should start at a high level institution.

Savan Kong (54:29)

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

Aaron Btooks (54:56)

because that's where you learn to talk to people. That's where you like, you can't use all that bravado and trying to punk somebody. This dude, don't care. He will kill you and what are they gonna do to him? He already got three life sentences.

Savan Kong (54:58)

Mm-hmm.

Yep.

Yep.

That's crazy, man. I love that psychology of it. mean, I think like there's something about working with people and trying to understand the motivation for what keeps them going every day when you strip people of things like material wealth, access to ⁓ vices like...

women or drugs or drinking and all these things that like you think drive people now but like when you strip all that out what then is left right like what gets people going that's crazy yeah

Aaron Btooks (55:46)

Basic humanity, respect and

respect thing is a big, that is a huge thing. I'll tell you a jacked up story and I'm only gonna tell you this story because I'm about to retire. And it happened so, it happened 20 years ago.

Savan Kong (55:53)

Yeah.

Okay, yeah, let's hear it.

Okay.

Aaron Btooks (56:02)

I was at work, and I won't tell you what institution I was at, but I was at an institution, I was working the shoe. And it was me and my best friend, who's still my best friend to this day.

Savan Kong (56:07)

Okay.

Okay?

Aaron Btooks (56:12)

We met at work. We're feeding in the specializing unit.

Fast is slow, slow is fast. Take your time, you won't make mistakes. So, I'm the key guy, so I have the key to the, the key that I have opens the actual cell door, and it opens the trap door, the feeding door. So you see in movies where the guy sticks his arm out and he don't wanna put his arm in. Like that's called a trap. So I'm walking around and.

Savan Kong (56:23)

Absolutely.

Okay.

Yeah.

Aaron Btooks (56:46)

My buddy's got all the trays. He's holding the trays. He's probably got 10 trays in his hand. And I popped three doors. Boom, boom, boom. And the doors open. Because I didn't pop the trap. I popped the doors.

Savan Kong (56:51)

Wow.

Cool.

Okay.

Aaron Btooks (57:04)

And behind those doors were six killers for a Hispanic organization. And I think you know what's what I'm talking about. And I'm standing there and they're standing there looking at me and you already know being in law enforcement, it's a fucking green light. Anytime you got a fucking up, the upper hand is green light on them, right? So.

The big homie who was over in the corner yelled something at him in Spanish. I was shitting myself so I didn't understand what he said. But they walked back in and closed their doors, all of them.

Savan Kong (57:32)

Yeah.

Mmm.

Aaron Btooks (57:37)

And of those six, three of them right now are at ADX Florence. Ain't never getting out of jail.

Savan Kong (57:44)

Damn.

Aaron Btooks (57:45)

So time passes and the guy, he was getting transferred like back east somewhere because he came back for a writ to go to court. Time passes, I go to get him so the marshals can take him to wherever he's going to. ⁓ he goes, Brooks, I respect you. And he said, had you been, and he mentioned another officer's name who was known for being.

heavy-handed overbearing and just a tyrant. He said, you had you been with so-and-so had he done that or had you done that with so-and-so if it had not been you and James you'd be dead right now. The only reason you're still breathing is because you're respectable and you never take your job and try to like be heavy-handed with people. And I was like year two in.

Savan Kong (58:14)

Yep. Yep.

Right. Right.

Aaron Btooks (58:41)

So that really shaped my mentality of, know, it is important how you treat people. You your parents always tell you that, right? You know, the world tells you that all the time. But when you get in law enforcement, it is very, very important how you treat people.

Savan Kong (58:44)

Yeah.

Yeah. Oh yeah, for sure. 100%. Yep.

Yeah, I mean, there's

the people telling you and you reading about it and hearing about it. And then when you're in a situation where you need to actually follow through with it, that's vastly different, bro. Like being able to execute on the things that you know is the right thing is so much harder. ⁓ But for you though, like that really set the tone then, man, if that was year two, right, of the rest of your career.

Aaron Btooks (59:11)

100%.

Yeah, that was year two and

I was in a shoe and it was one of those things of, like this is it, bro. Like that changed my entire mentality of how I treated people. And the other thing too is like in law enforcement, you're going to see these people again. If they don't have life, you're going to see them. They're from your community. There's been times I've been, when Ariano Felix was in San Diego, he got arrested. He came to San Diego. He was at MCC San Diego.

Savan Kong (59:35)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Aaron Btooks (59:52)

No, it wasn't Ariano Felix. was a. shit, what? No, it was Ariano Felix. Me and my ex-wife were in a UTC mall in La Jolla. It's me, my ex-wife and my daughter. Obviously, we're still married and we're walking through the mall and like this kid runs up to and I see him coming. And I remember telling my wife, like, get away from me. Take take our daughter and leave. We get out of here. It was Ariano Felix, his daughter, his son.

Savan Kong (1:00:02)

Okay? Okay?

Aaron Btooks (1:00:19)

his wife and his three body in the three body guards.

Savan Kong (1:00:22)

Scary bro.

Aaron Btooks (1:00:23)

But it's, you know, it's just another example of treating people with respect and kindness. You know, there's, I can't tell you how many times I've been in San Diego and like gone to the bar or gone to the club and seen inmates from work who got out on bail, whose charges got dropped, who, or you see their wives or their girlfriends who come visit.

Savan Kong (1:00:30)

Yeah, dude, absolutely, man.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Aaron Btooks (1:00:50)

And you have those staff members out there who would intentionally go after these dude's wives or girlfriends. Like, bro, you're about to go lock up with this dude here. What are you doing? Your mind frame of, you know, and you see it and it happens and officers get hurt and people are just like, ⁓ you know, the inmate attack team.

Savan Kong (1:00:57)

Dang.

Probably a different side to that too, you know?

Aaron Btooks (1:01:19)

Can

we tell the whole story or are we gonna stick with the inmate attacking because the inmate was mad at him because the inmate was having a bad day? That's not the whole story. But people don't, sometimes those are the situations people don't wanna talk about. Like why did the inmate attack you? because you went to the bar the other night, you were popping bottles, you saw his girl. Next thing you know, one thing leads to another.

Savan Kong (1:01:26)

Right. Right.

Aaron Btooks (1:01:45)

People are gonna find out whether they're in jail or not. They're gonna find out what happened.

Savan Kong (1:01:50)

Right, right. It's crazy, man.

Aaron Btooks (1:01:52)

So then the staff member gets

beat up. And why did the staff member get beat up? Because the inmate was having a bad day. Because the staff told him to comply, he didn't comply. Because the staff told him to do XY. No, because the staff fucked his wife. Can we tell the whole story? Bruh, fucked his old lady.

Savan Kong (1:02:01)

Yeah.

Yeah. And the inmate

doesn't have that voice that the staff has. You can go out in public, can talk to reporters, talk to your friends, whatever. The inmate's literally there, so you don't ever hear from them. Yeah, that's crazy.

Aaron Btooks (1:02:19)

Correct. And the

only thing that they have, the only thing the inmate's gonna have is his friends who were at the club that night. And guess what? His friends are gonna tell him, hey, your old lady went home with so-and-so. Wait, and the friend might be, the friend might have just gotten out of jail because the friend's charges got dropped or reduced or the friend copped a plea.

Savan Kong (1:02:25)

Right? Right?

Yeah, that's crazy.

Mm-hmm.

Aaron Btooks (1:02:45)

people don't think about like the multitude of things that could go wrong when you, it's more than just a job. It's more than just going to work for eight hours.

Savan Kong (1:02:54)

Yeah man, I mean there's so many layers of different things there. Aaron, I wanna talk a little bit about prison food culture and I'd love to get like a few quick answers from you about what this looks like. What's the one thing that the inmates complain the most about when it comes to food?

Aaron Btooks (1:03:15)

The, the, the, I'm trying to say how to, how does, I want to be politically correct, but I don't care. The white inmates complain that the food is over-seasoned.

Savan Kong (1:03:20)

I just say it.

⁓ man.

Aaron Btooks (1:03:27)

And the black inmates complain that the food's not cooked enough. So like every Thursday, know Thursday, depending on who's cooking, I know that every, that 75 % of the African-American inmates are going to be like, Hey Brooks, look at this chicken, man. It ain't even cooked all the way. And if you put too much seasoning on it, the white dudes are going to come and be like, Hey bro, like, I don't know who back there cooking Brooks, but man, he's a little heavy headed on the salt.

Savan Kong (1:03:30)

Right?

Right.

Yeah.

Aaron Btooks (1:03:56)

So those are, that would be my, or just the portion sizes. Sometimes they do some, depends on what the meal is, but sometimes it's the portion sizes and big enough. there are dietary restrictions that are on the food that don't come from us. They come from Washington, DC, from the dieticians and doctors who make up our cycle menu. But if you, if you can find somebody else who's in, who works in a bureau prison or probably even in state prison.

Savan Kong (1:03:59)

Okay.

Right.

Aaron Btooks (1:04:25)

Just ask them about chicken day. The black dudes is gonna say it's not cooked enough and the white dudes gonna say it's over seasoned. I mean, you put any kind of seasoning on it and the white dudes is like, hey bro, what's this shit? This is crazy. You got all this shit on here, you trying to make me have a heart attack?

Savan Kong (1:04:36)

Yeah, yeah.

love that. ⁓ man. ⁓ Are there holiday meals that you guys cook like special for holidays? What does that look like? Like what's Thanksgiving look like?

Aaron Btooks (1:04:46)

Yes.

Thanksgiving, ⁓ we'll buy ⁓ probably roast beef, turkey, ham, and mashed potatoes, gravy. Like basically the same thing you have at home. Like if you like my, my food service administrator right now, really sharp young guy. ⁓ He, think the last Thanksgiving or was it Thanksgiving or Christmas? Christmas we had four ounces of ham, four ounces of turkey, four ounces of ⁓ roast beef, mashed potatoes and gravy.

Savan Kong (1:05:02)

wow.

Wow.

Aaron Btooks (1:05:20)

macaroni and cheese, like all the fixings. Because at end of the day, the fat inmates are happy in me, right? Like what happens when you eat too much? You get tired, you won't go lay your ass down. So if the only way we can medicate you is by making sure that you're full, that trip to Femme Brother, that turkey trip's a real thing. A lot of people don't know, like, why do I get tired when I eat turkey?

Savan Kong (1:05:28)

yeah. Yep. Fall asleep. Yeah.

Uh-huh. Hit that tryptophan. ⁓

⁓ man.

Aaron Btooks (1:05:48)

That's tryptophan, baby, and it gets you every time.

Savan Kong (1:05:48)

Yeah,

it gets me every year man. It gets me every year, especially in front of a TV watching football, bro. I'm knocked out. I'm knocked out. Aaron, last question for you, brother, and I really appreciate this. I think these are very enlightening, hilarious stories that I've never heard before. But what's the one thing that most people misunderstand about prison food and specifically being a

a person who's teaching prisoners how to cook within that system.

Aaron Btooks (1:06:22)

So that's kind of a complicated question, but I'm gonna try to simplify the answer. And it's not so much about the prison food because they eat the same thing you eat. They're eligible to have the same things that we have on the streets. you know, Monday is... Damn, now I'm trying to think. I can't remember what Monday is. Monday might be like lettuce wraps, like chicken lettuce wraps. Tuesdays are...

Savan Kong (1:06:26)

Okay.

Wow.

Aaron Btooks (1:06:52)

Tuesdays are cheeseburgers. Wednesdays are like some barbecue chicken. Thursday is like chicken leg quarters, which is a thigh and a leg. ⁓ Friday is fish. It's either gonna be tuna or it's gonna be ⁓ like salmon patties. ⁓ Saturday is gonna be for lunch. It's gonna be like eggs with pancakes and maybe some kind of gravy. And then Sunday, it's gonna be

Savan Kong (1:07:01)

Wow.

Aaron Btooks (1:07:22)

Like, I think this Sunday is a chef salad. So you get, you know, diced up ham, all the accoutrements that come with a salad, and then an egg. So I think the biggest misconception is that people are like, and if you ever like watch court TV, you hear people say this. And it irritates me every time I hear it. I hope you rot in hell. I hope you die in jail.

I hope it's miserable. think I hope it's horrible. hope it's in prison is not any of those things. Can it be horrible? Yes. On a day to day basis, is it a horrible place to be from the layman from our viewpoint? Yes. It is a very horrible place to be because you've been removed from society and everything that you know and love. So from that aspect, it's a horrible thing, right? But from the aspect of the people who live there,

They make the best of it the same way we make the best of living in society. Sometimes society, it's not so great. Like our political climate right now is not that great, but we make the best of it. So when you take this guy who's got life, he's gonna do everything in his power to make his stay for the rest of his life as comfortable as possible. And it really just irks me when people are just like.

Savan Kong (1:08:30)

Absolutely.

Right.

Aaron Btooks (1:08:48)

I understand the pain and anguish behind it. Like I can empathize and sympathize with that person. But the truth of the matter is they're human beings.

Officers like myself do our best to treat them with respect and dignity because I'm not there to punish you. I'm there to make sure that you get your three hats in the cot and to make sure that you're safe.

Savan Kong (1:09:08)

Right.

Right? That's amazing. I love ending this conversation on that, Aaron. I I appreciate you coming out and educating me and educating the listeners. This has been a fantastic way to kick off work on scripted. I never even like put one and one together to think that they were actually cooks, let alone people who taught people how to cook in prison. And it's just been.

very fascinating and I'm sure the listeners are gonna be eating it up because where else can you hear a story like this? So I wanna thank you brother, thanks for coming out and I wish you well, yeah.

Aaron Btooks (1:09:41)

So, not a problem. ⁓ wait, one more thing. Look

up, have you ever heard of Dave's Killer Bread?

Savan Kong (1:09:49)

Yeah, I have that upstairs. I got it upstairs.

Aaron Btooks (1:09:51)

But

that's an inmate. Inmate went to prison, went to Sheridan, he started that company. Yes, you look up the owner of Day's Killer, owner and founder of Day's Killer Bread was an inmate. He learned how to bake in prison. And then the chef, I don't know if he's still there, but the head chef for the Hilton Corporation. He was an inmate in San Diego back in the 70s. He learned how to cook in San Diego as an inmate at the federal prison in San Diego and went to culinary art school and worked his way up to

Savan Kong (1:09:56)

Is that right? Wow!

Okay, okay, okay.

Wow.

Aaron Btooks (1:10:21)

the executive chef for the Hilton organization. So those stories are out there. There are success stories out there that, you you just gotta find them.

Savan Kong (1:10:23)

Wow.

Dang. Well, shout out to Dave's Killer Bread. Man, I buy that all the time. It's not cheap either, but it's the best bread that's out there. You know, it's like, so shout out to Dave's Killer Bread. If you're listening to this, I need a sponsor. Sponsor the next episode. Give me a shout out. ⁓ Hit me up on the DM. But other than that, Aaron, brother, I hope you have a great day, man. I appreciate you.

Aaron Btooks (1:10:35)

That part. Yeah.

Hahaha!

Thanks, Big Doc.

Savan Kong (1:10:55)

Alright, I'll talk to you soon. Okay, bye bye.

Aaron Btooks (1:10:56)

Later.